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Old 17th December 2010, 03:32 AM   #1621
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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no propagating going on here Brian, I only reported that this unsubstantiated info was what was all over the forum, I said nothing of it being for real. in fact I have registered my complaint and skepticism and said exactly what you said above, that until its confirmed by official channels as far as i'm concerned nothing has changed.

I just sent off another email, but

Quote:
ESS is notorious about not returning email. It is much more effective to call.
indeed hehe, usually I get a reply, but it takes a while. my stuff has taken a bit of a back seat to selling the house, moving and other business until recently, so i'll probably give them another call soon. have they got skype? obviously dont post here.
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Old 17th December 2010, 03:39 AM   #1622
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Listen I don't doubt your motives.

I am just saying it is pretty important not to lend credence to dubious statements by repeating them especially in regard to legal matters.
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Old 17th December 2010, 03:42 AM   #1623
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fair enough, noted
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Old 18th December 2010, 03:47 AM   #1624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ White View Post
But people should not think that the only reason a certain source will not lock at the lowest DPLL BW is jitter. There are other problems that can cause this too.
I greatly appreciated a compact answer from Russ.

My understanding is that;
1. Primary source for DPLL functionality in the case of I2S is not Bit Clock but Word Clock. Therefore, quality of Word Clock more affects the DPLL bandwidth setting than that of Bit Clock.
2. ES9018 regards a time interval given by its system clock tick as non-jitter standard.
3. ES9018 must have an internal independent oscillator that can tell an absolute frequency of the system clock externally connected.
4. In the context of DPLL or resampling time interval accuracy, a higher system clock frequency for ES9018 might bring better results.

Does anyone have different understandings?
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Old 18th December 2010, 04:05 AM   #1625
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunpei View Post
I greatly appreciated a compact answer from Russ.

My understanding is that;
1. Primary source for DPLL functionality in the case of I2S is not Bit Clock but Word Clock. Therefore, quality of Word Clock more affects the DPLL bandwidth setting than that of Bit Clock.
2. ES9018 regards a time interval given by its system clock tick as non-jitter standard.
3. ES9018 must have an internal independent oscillator that can tell an absolute frequency of the system clock externally connected.
4. In the context of DPLL or resampling time interval accuracy, a higher system clock frequency for ES9018 might bring better results.

Does anyone have different understandings?
1) This is conjecture, but I would like to know why you think so. In PCM everything really is driven by the bit clock. But I can see both word and bit clocks coming into play.

2) This seems obvious. Its clock is the *master* clock.

3) Not that I know of. Here is why. You have to know the master frequency in order to calculate certain values. If the chip already knew that would not be necessary. My understanding is that the chip works more like a state machine. Everything is relative. I am parsing my words here so as not to violate the NDA.

4) This I am quite sure is true, up to the limit.

If you get a complete answer to these questions from ESS I will be very happy.
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Last edited by Russ White; 18th December 2010 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 18th December 2010, 05:59 AM   #1626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunpei View Post
1. Primary source for DPLL functionality in the case of I2S is not Bit Clock but Word Clock. Therefore, quality of Word Clock more affects the DPLL bandwidth setting than that of Bit Clock.

For I2S modes it uses the bit clock into the DPLL. The word clock is not used.

2. ES9018 regards a time interval given by its system clock tick as non-jitter standard.

Yep. It assumes that the XIN master clock is the refference. It can only be as good as this clock.


3. ES9018 must have an internal independent oscillator that can tell an absolute frequency of the system clock externally connected.

No internal oscillator. It uses the XIN and the bit clock for all calculations.

4. In the context of DPLL or resampling time interval accuracy, a higher system clock frequency for ES9018 might bring better results.

Not all the time. The real benefit is in getting the best timing accurate clock, the frequency is not too important once you meet the minimum spec. Faster "can" be better, but its the complete system that needs to be looked at as a whole.



Does anyone have different understandings?
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Old 18th December 2010, 06:20 AM   #1627
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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so we are all very happy especially given my upcoming experiments with the rubidium clock. I will be very interested to see how longer term stability effects the audio if at all, but also this will make experiments with master clock X1 power supply quality more easy to evaluate

Last edited by qusp; 18th December 2010 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 18th December 2010, 07:52 AM   #1628
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Default Datasheets for Sabre type of DACs no longer require NDA

Hi All,
I'd just like to confirm that I have received data sheets for all Sabre DAC products from Shaw Electronics by just asking for them in a polite email, less than 10 hour delay, VERY good service.

So it doesn't seem like there are any restrictions on publishing schematics or anything else regarding designs using these products.
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Old 18th December 2010, 11:12 AM   #1629
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indeed, I received an answer to my question, ESS901X datasheet nolonger needs an NDA, but they simply take note of the people they supply the datasheet to, so while the datasheet itself should still not be published on a public forum, no reason for schematics using the designs not to be.
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Old 18th December 2010, 11:16 AM   #1630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
so we are all very happy especially given my upcoming experiments with the rubidium clock. I will be very interested to see how longer term stability effects the audio if at all, but also this will make experiments with master clock X1 power supply quality more easy to evaluate
BTW this is not a skeptical post, I just meant that rubidium clocks are best known for long term stability, rather than short term, but the clock Bunpei has kindly sent my way has the benefit if both along with more easily tweakable power supply
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