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Old 23rd December 2008, 01:51 PM   #1121
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Gang,

The problem with Firewire is that you still have to write a driver. While there is an ASYNC mode like USB in the Firewire specs. The problem is no OS supports it. Well that and the fact that more and more computers are shipping without the interface.

At least with USB you can implement easy Audio interfaces and even really great ones like asynchronous and be done and work with any OS. Well at least to 24/96, if you want higher than that (i.e. 24/192) you either have to use a MAC or write a driver XP/Vista/Linux.

Peufeu, I tried the isolators... I have to tell you I am not a fan the added jitter was way to much. Also where are you going to put them? Are you going to run the FX2 and FPGA off the VBUS and then isolate the dac at the serial engine? If you do that you need to put the MCLK right at the dac and reclock all the incomming pins (i.e. SCLK, WCLK and DATA). You will also need to do a little clock snubbing at the FPGA as these isolators may look good in some photo shoot they do for the data sheets, but in my experience they aren't nearly as good.

Thanks
Gordon
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Old 23rd December 2008, 02:42 PM   #1122
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wavelength
Gang,

The problem with Firewire is that you still have to write a driver. While there is an ASYNC mode like USB in the Firewire specs. The problem is no OS supports it. Well that and the fact that more and more computers are shipping without the interface.

At least with USB you can implement easy Audio interfaces and even really great ones like asynchronous and be done and work with any OS. Well at least to 24/96, if you want higher than that (i.e. 24/192) you either have to use a MAC or write a driver XP/Vista/Linux.
I know, Gordon. and that is the reason why most go with usb.
A few good implementations like yours do exist.

The drivers limit of firewire is going to be a non-issue when a standard driver will be provided in windows7, as now happens for mac and usb.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 02:50 PM   #1123
XXHE is offline XXHE  Netherlands
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Quote:
The drivers limit of firewire is going to be a non-issue when a standard driver will be provided in windows7
To me is seems unlikely that such a driver will provide everything possible/needed behind the driver (hence the functionalities of the device). I could be wrong though.

Btw, I am working on creating my own, but if anything is a tough job, it is this one.

Peter
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Old 23rd December 2008, 03:24 PM   #1124
peufeu is offline peufeu  France
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LOL, firewire, no way, too complex really. USB is the way. And I got it working @ 45 megabytes/s using 8% of 1 cpu core with a userspace libusb driver, so don't tell me it's slow, lol.

REPEAT 1 : For FireWire you need several tens of thousand lines of code and a powerful CPU. For USB you need a 8051 and about 200 lines of C, and it works.

REPEAT 2 : FireWire is dead anyway. USB is cheaper and this is what matters. If you need to put an ARM7 @ 50 MHz in your peripheral to do what a 8051 could do if you used USB, you gotta have a really good justification for it, because you're getting fired by the bean counters.

> Peufeu, I tried the isolators... I have to tell you I am not a fan the added
> jitter was way to much.

Well, the figures from the datasheet are impressive (for isolators) but still pretty nasty wrt audio standards...

> Also where are you going to put them?
> Are you going to run the FX2 and FPGA off the VBUS

Either USB powered or wall wart if > 500 mA.

> and then isolate the dac at the serial engine?

Isolators closest to DAC.

> If you do that you need to put the MCLK right at the dac

Why would I go to the trouble of implementing an asynchronous protocol if I did not do this ? The clock path will be about 1 cm. Master clock to DAC, everything slaved to it. A picture says more than a thousand words

Click the image to open in full size.

> and reclock all the incomming pins (i.e. SCLK, WCLK and DATA).

Yep. Well, depends on the DAC. The sigma delta ones have a MCK input so I'll use that. Dunno if I'll reclock the other lines, perhaps worth to try. Definitely needed for the old multibit DACs.

> You will also need to do a little clock snubbing at the FPGA as these
> isolators may look good in some photo shoot they do for the data sheets,
> but in my experience they aren't nearly as good.

lol, I don't know why I'm not even surprised... thanks for the info
what source termination did you use with those ?

as long as the bits get through it's OK though.

> The drivers limit of firewire is going to be a non-issue
> when a standard driver will be provided in windows7,
> as now happens for mac and usb.

Yeah, a driver that, as usual puts the clock in the PC. And there still is a little unsolved interrogation about all the DRM cr*p. And how do I change the oversampling filters and the digital crossover in my FPGA using this driver ?

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Old 23rd December 2008, 03:34 PM   #1125
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Quote:
The drivers limit of firewire is going to be a non-issue when a standard driver will be provided in windows7, as now happens for mac and usb.
USB3 will kill it.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 03:35 PM   #1126
schro20 is offline schro20  United States
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Default Ethernet!

Why not use something like this: http://www.ethernut.de/ ? In particular the EIR-1. Just need to replace the decoder chip. Everything is open source and the whole ethernet interface is a done deal. For distribution around the house I don't see how you want to beat ethernet.

But in the end the real issue is software and for that I still personally prefer the Roku (or similarly Squeeze).

Anyway, we're getting off topic.

Peter
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Old 23rd December 2008, 04:12 PM   #1127
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrianDonegan


USB3 will kill it.
Yes, maybe. But it will require a new mainboard or a dedicated controller. Not a bad option if Ms will also release native audio drivers with 24/192 support.
not the crap of asio4all.
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Old 23rd December 2008, 06:15 PM   #1128
peufeu is offline peufeu  France
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Let's stop polluting this thread, and go there :

Pc -> Dac, How ?
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Old 25th December 2008, 02:32 AM   #1129
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"Oh and yea... ESS released yesterday 32 bit version of the Sabre AND you heard it here first. The first ever 32bit ADC....

Thanks
Gordon"

no standalone asrc part? im sold on the BB anyway though.

Looking forward for the ADC . Pleasant suprise (especially this time around) , same multiple channel type?
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Old 25th December 2008, 08:40 AM   #1130
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Quote:
Originally posted by tritosine
"Oh and yea... ESS released yesterday 32 bit version of the Sabre AND you heard it here first. The first ever 32bit ADC....

Thanks
Gordon"

no standalone asrc part? im sold on the BB anyway though.

Looking forward for the ADC . Pleasant suprise (especially this time around) , same multiple channel type?
I believe that's a typo, it's a DAC, not an ADC. I also believe that it will be called the Sabre32, and it's not the first 32 bit DAC, the AK4397 is.

Where and when is that quote taken from? News about the Sabre32 has been out for around two weeks.
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