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Old 14th October 2008, 02:12 PM   #1031
promixe is offline promixe  United States
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Hi all,


Quote:
Also, I am not aware of a standard cable and connector for DSD
I believe that, at least in the pro audio industry, the DSD standard connector would be a 75Ohm BNC...


I've read the whole thread and it seems to me that the focus of it is primarily audiophile/hi-end consumer use. While I have nothing against it, I would like someone to elaborate on already being implemented or potential pro-audio and mastering use of the Sabre chip.

My main questions that the thread doesn't cover (or dismisses quickly) are:

1) Is anyone here using a single Sabre chip in its 8-channel mode? Aside from being slightly inferior to its stereo mode when it comes to DNR\THD figures, what are your real listening notes and observations in comparison to the parallel stereo mode? Is stereo image the same? Bass/air fidelity?

2) What would be the best scenario of implementing a Word Clock circuit? Someone has briefly mentioned (Neo2k?) that in general sense anything that is not internal and not as physically close as possible to the chip would produce significantly inferior results. Is there a way to utilize Sabre's internal DPLL to interface with WC directly? What would be a setup to minimize the chip's performance loss in this regard? I'm not an electronic engineer, so I'm just thinking out loud.

3) Has anyone compared either Buffalo or Sabre eval board to pro-audio DACs from the main key players in the industry? Specifically:
- Lavry Gold/Blue/DA10
- Prism DA2 or ADA series (or even Orpheus)
- Weiss DAC1/2
- Cranesong HEDD
- UA2192

rossl: great build! If you don't mind sharing some pricing details, how much was it to build the rack (metalwork+coating)? How many units (just metalwork) did you do? This is my greatest stumbling block so far - to find someone to outsource metalwork to without parting with my car or living on beans for a year =)

Thanks to all for such a great pool of information!
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Old 14th October 2008, 08:01 PM   #1032
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Default Re: Denon DVD-1920 DSD MOD

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ White
OK for those of you who don't mind risking a Denon DVD-1920 and want to get DSD out of it...

Here is how I am doing it:

There are three vias at DBK,DSD1,DSD2. Solder a tiny wire into each via.

I am not sure how I will run these to the panel, but for now just to test the DAC I just used allegator clip jumpers to wires which are installed in the DAC.

It actually sounds very good despite the makeshift wiring! It is definitely much better than the stock DAC, but that would not actually take much.

The DVD-1920 is much easier to modify than the DVD2910, so I would go that route personally.

Cheers!
Russ

Here is a picture of the wires soldered into the whiskers.


Hello Russ,

I am in the middle of turning my DVD-1930ci into a top loader and was looking at the DSD connection you have. Should the wire be soldered at the vias or on the other side of the resistor or will it have no effect?
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Old 14th October 2008, 08:22 PM   #1033
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Default Re: Re: Denon DVD-1920 DSD MOD

Quote:
Originally posted by khundude




Hello Russ,

I am in the middle of turning my DVD-1930ci into a top loader and was looking at the DSD connection you have. Should the wire be soldered at the vias or on the other side of the resistor or will it have no effect?

Hi,

I did mine at the vias, because there is already a series resistor at the chip on the buffalo.

Cheers!
Russ
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Old 14th October 2008, 08:41 PM   #1034
rossl is offline rossl  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by promixe
rossl: great build! If you don't mind sharing some pricing details, how much was it to build the rack (metalwork+coating)? How many units (just metalwork) did you do? This is my greatest stumbling block so far - to find someone to outsource metalwork to without parting with my car or living on beans for a year =)

Thanks to all for such a great pool of information! [/B]
Hi promixe

Get used to eating beans


Well, here is the bad news. I ordered just one chassis unit. It was expensive.

I spent a good amount of time designing it also.

As it was, I paid a lot for just the one chassis and tooling. For the price of just that... I could have gone and bought a decent used DAC.

But then... I already have two decent used DACs in my closet. I need to clean out the closet and sell some stuff. And, I wanted to make MY own DAC.

I didn't want to put in a big order of chassis units because I wanted to make sure everything fit, connectors screw in, and everything looked OK.

As it worked out, everything fit OK but I don't care for the paint color or the silkscreen.

In order to make it cost effective, an order at least 5 or 10 would make the cost of the tooling amortize out and bring down the per-unit price. Even then it will still be way more expensive than cheap china imported junk.

Changing the paint color on a new order costs nothing, but a new silkscreen is another tooling charge.
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Old 15th October 2008, 01:06 AM   #1035
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Default Re: Re: Re: Denon DVD-1920 DSD MOD

Quote:
Originally posted by Russ White



Hi,

I did mine at the vias, because there is already a series resistor at the chip on the buffalo.

Cheers!
Russ


That is what I wanted to hear, thanks Russ. Got any idea on the Buffalo's availability?
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Old 20th October 2008, 04:34 PM   #1036
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by rossl
Overall, the Sabre8 as I have it right now sounds better than the Anagram DAC. It is a very detailed sound and is neutral. The problem with op-amp IV converters and op-amp output stages is that the op-amps have a sound of their own. Transformers have a sound too, but the effects sound very neutral to my ears. The THD distortions do not sound "digital".

Neutral is good.
Didnt you remove the op-amps???

Quote:
My Camelot DAC with the Anagram module is now being stored in the parts cabinet. I thought it was great a few years ago, but now technology has passed it by.
Which Camelot DAC do you have?
This one?
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ort-day-4.html

Also, which revision of the anagram module was in it? My guess would be the mk4, as used in the excellent Audiomeca Enkianthus DAC that i had the pleasure to listen.
If that's the case the Sabre is looking really great.
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Old 20th October 2008, 06:25 PM   #1037
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Default Re: Re: Re: DAC4392 + ESS Sabre: this is incredible.

Quote:
Originally posted by wildmonkeysects
Output stage:

My current (pun!) favorite is a lowish value i/v resistor feeding a Lundahl Amorphous core transformer. Only works for DAC chips that have sufficient output voltage compliance, like the Sabre. Somewhat lowish output voltage, but very liquid, coherent, clean. Capable of ongaku.

I have been on both sides of the fence about transformers: many do indeed sound like the negatives attributed to them: lumpy, loose, steely, granular, lifeless, constricted, diffuse, fuzzy.

However, the Lundahl Amorphous core ones, like the LL1674 as an i/v are entirely another story. Relaxed ease, open, liquid, tight and defines low end, space and imaging galore, details without edge. I like! Look forward to fine tuning with the Sabre.

Cheers,

WMS
What about a tube output stage? I believe that it's the best use of tubes

Also, I would look into using a digital volume control (Tent's new one looks interesting)
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Old 20th October 2008, 06:50 PM   #1038
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by wildmonkeysects

Indeed, althought it may be a small number outside of DIYland, there is likely interest in interfacing the output of a DF such as the PMD-100 or PMD-200. The thought of HDCD feeding the Sabre is a facet of what got my attention. In fact, the way this thread has many of us salivating, you would think there are some fleshy curves somewhere, but that is OT, and I don't operating theta. The PMD-100 would need glue logic either HW or SW to interleave it's output, but the PMD-200 appears to have an interleaved output mode available when in SW mode, and could interface 24/176 or 24/192 directly to the Sabre in it's current incarnation.
What are these PMDs?
I would love a HDCD decode added to (before right?) the Sabre DAC.
I actually have a Muse model2 dac (with hdcd decoding), which has an excellent psu section and my plan is to modify it, adding i2s and firewire input.
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Old 20th October 2008, 09:39 PM   #1039
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Default HDCD

Regarding HDCD I recommend ripping these disks to a harddisk (HD). Use the FLAC format (Free Lossless Audio Codec). But make sure you rip with DBPowerAmp with the HDCD DSP functionality. This decodes the HDCD disks to 24/44.1 format to the HD. What is needed is then a PC connected to some DAC capable of 24/44.1, or some other playback device (Logitech etc). I use a HTPC running Media Monkey for playback. HDCD capable DACs are more and more scarce, so this is a good solution.

RK
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Old 20th October 2008, 10:18 PM   #1040
Telstar is offline Telstar  Italy
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Quote:
Originally posted by Russ White

In reality the there is no voltage gain with the IVY as I have it configured , in fact there is slight loss.

All that really matters is the output is 2VRS at 0dB output.

Cheers!
Russ
Would it be possible to consider higher output (3 or better 4V+) in future revisions? without compromising the sound quality of course.
2V is low for me if not using a discrete preamp.
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