Computer transport, the right way

[Telstar]

Assuming the computer is build in a way to reduce interferences and noise and/or the audio equipment is located far enough (5m+), which would be the ideal way to build the source around it?

The pieces of the puzzle would be:

1) Computer with external firewire soundcard (I have already determined that the best so far is the RME fireface 800). It will play high-resolution master lossless files.

2) External master clock, such as apogee Big Ben. it must accept 24-bit/176.4 kHz. Needed? Waste of money?

3) A very good DAC. The most important piece, IMO. Here there are a few that I'm considering: APL DAC (coming in 3-4 months), Berkeley Akpha DAC (coming next month), and Acoustic Arts DAC-I mk4 (already available).
Plus something DIYed based on tda1541a (EC designs units are limited to virtual 20bits, which will create dithering playing 24bit files). It must accept 24-bit/176.4 kHz.

Comments? Suggestions? Ideas?

[andpa]

I use the studio digital monitors as the stereo system. So the high resolution signal from computer make the great sound.

[audiosteve]

1) Firewire, S/PDIF or USB is you choice. My sound card has a S/PDIF out which I use.

2) Big Ben is probably a waste. This is usually used in the pro world to provide a 'house' clock that can be distributed to multiple pieces of gear so that they all remain int he same audio clock domain. Seems like overkill to me for your application. Besides, any of the above sources are isochronous with the clock is embedded within the signal. They must be the clock master. Use of an external master would need that you would then also need to use an ASRC ebwteen the source and the DAC.

3) A very good DAC is key to good sound. There are a number of them available. I use a Grace m901. When running FLAC files to the S/PDIF out on my computer to the Grace, the sound is phenomenal.

If you want to build your own, Twisted Pair makes a nice DAC and they also have an ASRC module as well called the Metronome.

[Telstar]

3) A very good DAC is key to good sound. There are a number of them available. I use a Grace m901. When running FLAC files to the S/PDIF out on my computer to the Grace, the sound is phenomenal.

If you want to build your own, Twisted Pair makes a nice DAC and they also have an ASRC module as well called the Metronome. [/B]

I havent found a good 24/192 diy DAC, or even 32bit. I was thinking of a modification or newer version of EC designs DI8. I would really like to use the TDA1541. I'm not sure how many I would need to attain real 24 bits.

Grace DAC? Never heard of. I'm also considering to get an used Muse Model 2 and to mod it. It can even be upgraded from the manifacturer (but that would not be cheap)

I have a TwinDAC+ (spdif and usb in), but it is NOS, and I want to be ready for high-resolution music files that I'll be buying in the next months.

Among the machines already able to accept those signals there are the three i mentioned above, plus the dCS Elgar. Everything else either do not accept higher than 96khz or is too expensive (let's say 4k€/5k$ is my price limit).

[audiosteve]

The Grace is sold primarily as a headphone amp for professional monitoring and mastering. That is its intended use. But at its core it is a first class DAC with AES/EBU, S/PDIF, TOSLINK, USB and also line inputs. If your budget is 4k euro then you can easily afford it and have money left over. Many people also like the similar Benchmark DAC. I think the Grace is better, that's why I have it and not the Benchmark. You can also get a very elegant remote control for it.

BTW, there was a typo in my earlier post, it is an m902, not m901.

http://www.gracedesign.com/products/m902/m902.htm

[wakibaki]

Computers are very noisy. Best to put it in a cupboard (can get v. hot) or a different room. If you have a desktop, you can probably get optical out cheaper in a regular PCI card and you don't need 5m of firewire cable, just the optical will do.

http://www.saverstore.com/productinf...2&rstrat=12702

That's the first one I found... obviously it's in the UK, but prices must be comparable in the US.

The home recording guys are fussy about their DACs, but they don't seem to differentiate between S/PDIF I/Os. Mostly they're running 2496 or better. Still,this one is so cheap, you could try it against another and see if you can hear any difference.

w

Oh, sorry, I see you're in Milan

[Irakli]

The very good quality DAC is the key. If you have external DAC with ASRC and decent sound card with S/PDIF out, than the rest really does not matter as much.

I have regular desktop with E-MU 1212 (It is a great sound card by the way) and using it for S/PDIF out. My DAC is RAKK DAC MKII.

Combination beats any other digital source I ever heard.

[Telstar]

Originally posted by wakibaki
[B]Computers are very noisy. Best to put it in a cupboard (can get v. hot) or a different room. If you have a desktop, you can probably get optical out cheaper in a regular PCI card and you don't need 5m of firewire cable, just the optical will do.

http://www.saverstore.com/productinf...2&rstrat=12702

That's the first one I found... obviously it's in the UK, but prices must be comparable in the US.

I am building a silent htpc and in alternative i can use one of my desktops with a long cable (haven't determined yet which cable can be long without problems, usb can go to 5m, not sure about firewire, probably yes). But an optical spdif cable shouldn't be long.

About the spdif card, it may work, but it will retain the noise from the computter (unless i build it without moving parts, but i wont).
So, as stated in the first post an EXTERNAL FIREWIRE soundcard is the best digital transport.

I wish some of the pro manufacturers like dCS make a firewire DAC of the same quality. I am quite confident of Berkeley, because the guys are from Pacific Microsonics.

So, mostly my thread is asking suggestions for an up/oversampling dac that will actually not perform any OS, but will retain all the resolution of the master audio files without any manipulation.

4. The software that I will be using is XXHighEnd that uses exclusive mode on Vista and that in my listening tests surpassed the SQ of ASIO.

[Telstar]

Originally posted by Irakli
The very good quality DAC is the key. If you have external DAC with ASRC and decent sound card with S/PDIF out, than the rest really does not matter as much.

I have regular desktop with E-MU 1212 (It is a great sound card by the way) and using it for S/PDIF out. My DAC is RAKK DAC MKII.

Combination beats any other digital source I ever heard.

Quoting myself from an above post:

I have a TwinDAC+ (spdif and usb in), but it is NOS, and I want to be ready for high-resolution music files that I'll be buying in the next months.

You guys probably dont know the TwinDAC:
http://www.twindac.com/TwinDACSpec.htm
It is an EXCELLENT DAC, the only problem is that it accept only 16/48k from usb input and 18/96k on spdif. I need 24(true)/176.4k

I'm looking for a similar quality but that can handle higher resolution audio files. Eventually a DIY project. Or some mods to an old Muse Model 2 that I could get for 500€.

[Wingfeather]

I think a fundamental possibility is being missed here:

Use an audio interface with a clock input!
You won't need a nasty ASRC and the transmission won't add any jitter beyond what the DAC's xtal produces.

If you're not desperately after a DIY DAC project, then I recommend simply buying a Lynx Aurora8 (and the firewire interface card for it) and you're done.

Alternatively, any DAC (maybe Apogee, Benchmark, whoever) that has a clock output will be able to sync a decent sound card (the Lynx AES-16 is fantastic) to it perfectly.

Originally posted by wakibaki
Computers are very noisy.

That's really not true if you put any effort into the design at all. There's a multitude of cases designed for minimal airflow turbulence and whatnot, plus a whole range of super-quiet fans and power supplies. CPUs and graphics cards can be cooled passively. Hard drives can go in quietening enclosures.
The result is a very quiet machine that doesn't make any more noise than a CD player - perhaps less.