Davey said:The delay of the DCX2496 (with none added in programming of course) is 0.8 milliseconds. That's 800 microseconds.
Cheers,
Davey.
thanks Davey...I pulled the subs forward about a foot (close to a ms delay I think) and it did make a difference. I was worried when Jan posted 5ms!! I did not like the idea of having the subs 5 ft closer than the mains ha ha.
I take the bass output from the deqx and throw a splitter on it and then eq the subs with the dcx. That way any remote control function also works on the subs. The sub signal must get degraded as of course it goes into the dcx as analog, but it's only for frequencies lower than 80 hz.
The other night the bass kinda sounded a bit 'wrong', that's when I twigged that I might have to take into account the thru time of the dcx hence the question.
Thanks to all for their answers
I tried the self aligning setup function tonight with my setup and the numbers seemed reasonable for the sub but a little weird for the mids and tweeters. I'd still like to run some tests with Speaker Workshop when I get it running to see what the DCX did.
I just plugged the ECM8000 mic directly into the C input with no phantom power and it seemed to register a signal. Does the DCX provide phantom power for the mic? Would I get better results if I ran the mic through the mixer first?
I just plugged the ECM8000 mic directly into the C input with no phantom power and it seemed to register a signal. Does the DCX provide phantom power for the mic? Would I get better results if I ran the mic through the mixer first?
[B]DCX has phantom power[/B]
DCX delay function. What I did was align the low and mid with the hf turned off and then aligned the mids and hf with low turned off.
I did this with one channel and then copied the result to the other channel. Seemed to come out pretty good.
At the time I used the mic in my Ratshack digital SPL meter. Worked OK.
Just bought a DEQ 2496 and Beringer 8000 mic. Gotta make some patch cords.
DCX has phantom power. See page last paragraph page 8 of the manual.
DCX delay function. What I did was align the low and mid with the hf turned off and then aligned the mids and hf with low turned off.
I did this with one channel and then copied the result to the other channel. Seemed to come out pretty good.
At the time I used the mic in my Ratshack digital SPL meter. Worked OK.
Just bought a DEQ 2496 and Beringer 8000 mic. Gotta make some patch cords.
DCX has phantom power. See page last paragraph page 8 of the manual.
janneman said:
Aaahh, can see where we got our wires crossed! No, I wasn't asking about available delay, in my sit I wanted to know by how much the signal was delayed intrinsically by simply passing thru the dcx, so I could physically account for it with placement. thanks for your help though!
Had a read of the article you linked to regarding 'who am I', must say that personally i don't put much faith in any findings made in the psychology/psychiatric field, but that is a discussion for another day ha ha!
Will go thru your site again, maybe next time without a beer or two under my belt.
janneman said:
Yeah, I had the same thing with gravity. Until I fell out of the window...
Jan Didden
Aaah yes, but are seriously suggesting that psychology/psychiatry are on the same plane of provability??
Have we reached another day already?? What time is it over there? Right now it's 9 pm thursday. You must be at work, so get back to it ha ha.
terry j said:
Aaah yes, but are seriously suggesting that psychology/psychiatry are on the same plane of provability??
Have we reached another day already?? What time is it over there? Right now it's 9 pm thursday. You must be at work, so get back to it ha ha.
Well, it's science, isn't it? They do tests, blind tests, develop thoeries, test the theories with practical reality, draw conclusions. I don't see why that should be OK for 'normal' physics but not for neurophysics. These things, like all scientific reports, should be judged on how well the proofs have been shown. No?
Jan Didden
Each of the outputs can be delayed about 12msec maximum (4 meters) ....relative to each other. Using the "long" delay settings you can delay each input...relative to another....by over 500msec.
The auto-align function is aimed at professional usage. For those of us who are building diy speakers it's better to perform near-field acoustic measurements and then manually adjust the "short" delay settings to properly time-align drivers.
A very simple procedure to do this would be to select an even order crossover like LR4 (one that results in acoustic slopes very close to electrical slopes) and then place your microphone not more than one meter away on the design axis. Reverse polarity on one of the drivers and then adjust the short delay on the driver that's forward (usually the tweeter) until you get the strongest null at the crossover frequency. Then reverse polarity back to normal for listening. For conventional speakers with drivers mounted on the same baffle plane the measurements will yield delay settings of about 500 to 800usec.
The 0.8msec intrinsic delay I determined with a measurement on my test bench. There are frequency-dependent delays associated with various filter configurations (when activated) of course, but the 0.8msec measurement was taken with the DCX programmed in a "direct" mode with no filters or anything else programmed.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Davey.
The auto-align function is aimed at professional usage. For those of us who are building diy speakers it's better to perform near-field acoustic measurements and then manually adjust the "short" delay settings to properly time-align drivers.
A very simple procedure to do this would be to select an even order crossover like LR4 (one that results in acoustic slopes very close to electrical slopes) and then place your microphone not more than one meter away on the design axis. Reverse polarity on one of the drivers and then adjust the short delay on the driver that's forward (usually the tweeter) until you get the strongest null at the crossover frequency. Then reverse polarity back to normal for listening. For conventional speakers with drivers mounted on the same baffle plane the measurements will yield delay settings of about 500 to 800usec.
The 0.8msec intrinsic delay I determined with a measurement on my test bench. There are frequency-dependent delays associated with various filter configurations (when activated) of course, but the 0.8msec measurement was taken with the DCX programmed in a "direct" mode with no filters or anything else programmed.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Davey.
janneman said:
Yes that's true, the scientific method should not vary depending on the area under investigation.
But even a cursory examination of their position show unexamined assumptions upon which the whole theoretical structure is based, assumptions that I don't accept are proven, a couple of which are 'the brain is exactly the same thing as the mind', 'all thought is created by chemical reactions', 'imprecise and limited measurements of brain activity can give us an adequate insight into human thinking' to name a few.
They observe some sort of chemical/electrical activity just prior to an action being carried out, and assume not only that they are linked, but one causes the other. There is no proof.
I observe that night ALWAYS follows day, but I would make a serious error if I concluded a CAUSAL link! Night is not caused by day!!!
Anyway, as you can see, I do have an interest in this area which is why I enjoyed the article you linked to.
Davey said:
Davey, would you have had enough experience to guesstimate what my possible delay might be? I use a LR 48 db lowpass@90hz, plus around seven parametric points. It is for the sub only, and at the moment have kinda just assumed around 1ms (ie move them forward one foot). It does sound better and more coherent than when I had them 'flush' with the mains.
Much larger distances and much larger (possible) delay corrections. A totally different acoustic environment.
However, definitely try the auto-align feature and gauge the results for yourself. I tried it but it was much too crude/inconsistent for what I was trying to accomplish.
Terry,
The 1mS setting seems believable to me, and agrees with your physical placement.
I admit I didn't experiment much with the auto-align feature. I found I could accomplish what I wanted to easily without it.
Cheers,
Davey.
However, definitely try the auto-align feature and gauge the results for yourself. I tried it but it was much too crude/inconsistent for what I was trying to accomplish.
Terry,
The 1mS setting seems believable to me, and agrees with your physical placement.
I admit I didn't experiment much with the auto-align feature. I found I could accomplish what I wanted to easily without it.
Cheers,
Davey.
Davey said:
I'm unsure of the significance of the above difference to the actual process. I could understand that something may be wrong or inaccurate with the DCX Auto-Align function, but that it's appropriate for larger distances and not smaller ones doesn't compute. It either works or it doesn't.
Or are you saying the inaccuracies are less significant at longer listening distances?
I think it's more a matter of accuracy.
Pro sound applications have bigger offsets between acoustic centres of drivers. A fairly rough time adjustment will get a big improvement in sound.
In a domestic situation the offsets are much smaller, people are fussier about alignments and crossovers are often at higher frequencies = shorter wavelength.
Can you imagine a bass player shift his quad box 1 foot during a performance to get better sound?
Pro sound applications have bigger offsets between acoustic centres of drivers. A fairly rough time adjustment will get a big improvement in sound.
In a domestic situation the offsets are much smaller, people are fussier about alignments and crossovers are often at higher frequencies = shorter wavelength.
Can you imagine a bass player shift his quad box 1 foot during a performance to get better sound?
The accuracy *is* important in a pro-sound environment. Poor time alignment can affect the frequency response. Additionally, the processing is all digital and is not subject to tolerances and the like - this is why I suggest it either works accurately or it has a traceable defect.
I've used the auto-align a few times and have never had a single spurious result to call it in to question.
Next time I have the measurement rig set up I'll see if I can check out the accuracy. I can tell you with certainty it's far more accurate than what you could do with a tape measure. Maybe some who've had problems didn't have the output levels set high enough? When I use it I've got it up loud enough that it's unpleasant to stay in the room.
I've used the auto-align a few times and have never had a single spurious result to call it in to question.
Next time I have the measurement rig set up I'll see if I can check out the accuracy. I can tell you with certainty it's far more accurate than what you could do with a tape measure. Maybe some who've had problems didn't have the output levels set high enough? When I use it I've got it up loud enough that it's unpleasant to stay in the room.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.