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Old 12th December 2012, 02:38 PM   #841
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Thanks for the feedback. It's really appreciated but I do have a couple of other questions.
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
It would be better if it floats, and if you do it right you get constrained layer damping.
What do you mean by "do it right"? What's the best way to float the hardwood?


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It is best if the solid material is actually a "butcher block" construction.
What's "butcher block" construction?
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Old 12th December 2012, 02:50 PM   #842
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Originally Posted by prairieboy View Post
Regardless of which you use, the common woodworkers method for working with solid wood over a panel is to resaw the hard wood (use a bandsaw) to a thickness of approx 3/16 (5 mm if you're metric) and then use a thickness planer or thickness sander to get it down to 1/8 (3 mm) which you then glue to the panel. With a box of .5 cu. ft. Your panel sizes won't be large enough to cause a problem. Use this method for all panels, and don't use sold for top and bottom and ply/MDF/hardwood composite panels for sides, front, back.

If you don't have access to a bandsaw, there may be a millwork shop in your area that can do it for you. They'll need an extended throat on the bandsaw and at least a half inch blade ( inch is better). With the right equipment, and someone who knows what they're doing, 8 wide, or wider, boards can easily be resawn. Virtually any hardwood can be resawn. I've done birds eye maple without a problem.
I can get the walnut resawn but is there any particular reason why hardwood thicker than 1/8" is not recommended for this application? Would using 1/2" or 3/4" walnut cause problems? The reason I ask is because I would like for these speakers to have rounded corners and the look that I'm going for won't be possible with veneer or 1/8" thick hardwood.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 12th December 2012, 03:11 PM   #843
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Butcher block is a type of wood assembly. It can be edge grain or end grain. In this case you would ordinarily want flat grain for aesthetic reasons so I believe Dave is talking about edge laminating as you often see in today's flat grain cutting boards.
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Old 12th December 2012, 05:14 PM   #844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
I can get the walnut resawn but is there any particular reason why hardwood thicker than 1/8" is not recommended for this application? Would using 1/2" or 3/4" walnut cause problems? The reason I ask is because I would like for these speakers to have rounded corners and the look that I'm going for won't be possible with veneer or 1/8" thick hardwood.

Thanks for the input.
It is because the thickness of the hardwood directly relates to how much it will move (expand/contract). This is why it is ok to veneer to a manmade substrate (MDF, Plywood etc), the veneer is very thin. Anything much over an 1/8" (3mm) is prone to failure. Here is a movement calculator: Estimate Wood Movement Calculator

Keep in mind that wood moves perpendicular to the grain pattern. Thats why a board expands/contracts in width, not length. So you can build the shell of the box - top,bottom and sides out of solid wood just fine. Then make the baffle and backs out of a manmade material like MDF or ply.

If you do the reverse you will be screwed.

There can be expansion in the thickness on large pieces, but in my experience making gift boxes I have never had a failure this way.
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Old 12th December 2012, 05:41 PM   #845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
I can get the walnut resawn but is there any particular reason why hardwood thicker than 1/8" is not recommended for this application? Would using 1/2" or 3/4" walnut cause problems? The reason I ask is because I would like for these speakers to have rounded corners and the look that I'm going for won't be possible with veneer or 1/8" thick hardwood.

Thanks for the input.
Easy. Veneer the panels, join with a rabbet (http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Yc13HuNGfNetpW), then rout/saw part of the corner (3/8" probably reasonable if your rabbet was 3/4" deep and 3/8" wide), and glue in a solid piece of the same hardwood (grain will be perpendicular to the grain of the veneer). Once dry, round over the insert with a router. Depending on the wood, and the appearance, you may want to rout a very small V along the joint of the solid insert and the veneer.
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Old 12th December 2012, 05:56 PM   #846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
What do you mean by "do it right"? What's the best way to float the hardwood?
We have yet to really determine that... but some solid over 15mm ply are in the planning stages... i can say it, but i can't do it, i leave that to Chris & Bernie.

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Old 12th December 2012, 06:20 PM   #847
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Originally Posted by TinTurtle View Post
It is because the thickness of the hardwood directly relates to how much it will move (expand/contract). This is why it is ok to veneer to a manmade substrate (MDF, Plywood etc), the veneer is very thin. Anything much over an 1/8" (3mm) is prone to failure. Here is a movement calculator: Estimate Wood Movement Calculator

Keep in mind that wood moves perpendicular to the grain pattern. Thats why a board expands/contracts in width, not length. So you can build the shell of the box - top,bottom and sides out of solid wood just fine. Then make the baffle and backs out of a manmade material like MDF or ply.

If you do the reverse you will be screwed.

There can be expansion in the thickness on large pieces, but in my experience making gift boxes I have never had a failure this way.
Thanks for the info. Here's a theoretical question regarding hardwood expansion: What would happen if 1/2" hardwood was glued to 3/4" MDF? Would the MDF move with the hardwood or would the glue fail?
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Old 12th December 2012, 07:12 PM   #848
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Originally Posted by jazzcyclist View Post
Thanks for the info. Here's a theoretical question regarding hardwood expansion: What would happen if 1/2" hardwood was glued to 3/4" MDF? Would the MDF move with the hardwood or would the glue fail?
Tough to say, it depends on how wide the hardwood piece is. For example I am making some trim pieces now, and I will attach them to MDF sides. I am keeping them narrow. Plus I will only attach them in the middle so they can move, thats not really practical for what you are trying. Say a 4 inch by 8 inch piece... you could maybe get away with that, but a 14 x 18 would be a bad idea.

It is doubtful the glue will fail if you glued it properly, something else will give.. It might warp, or the hardwood could split. And sometimes it takes a while. I am helping a buddy with an old walnut chest, probably about 80 years old. Somewhere down the line, either originally or later, somebody laminated a 3/8 or so thick layer of walnut directly on the cedar, cross grain. Then it was in a damp area for a while, and the top just completely cut loose, warped all over the place.

Some things might last for 5-10 years and then you have a problem. Its sort of a question of how you want to build. I am weird because I build things to last until long after I am dead. That way either I don't have to worry about it, or if it is a clients they can't b#$# at me

BTW.. you bike?
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Old 12th December 2012, 08:20 PM   #849
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BTW.. you bike?
Yes I do, strictly on the road, although I used to race on the track.
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Old 12th December 2012, 09:48 PM   #850
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Nice, I got back into it this year. Lost 60 lbs and cured my diabetes. Picked up a Serotta Atlanta, it is an amazing ride.
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