A 'how to' for High Gloss Finishing

[tech9_79]

Does anyone have any experience with either of these products or something similar? water based seems so much easier

Oxford USL http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/products/Oxford_USL_Clear_Gloss_1_Gal-86-24.html

deft
http://www.deftfinishes.com/trade/OurProducts/details.cfm?ProductID=14

[MJL21193]

Originally posted by tech9_79

the problem im having is with the lacquer coat,

i started with bullseye sanding sealer then sprayed sherwin williams oil based primer and paint(hand full of coats each). I primed, let dry for 24 hours then the gloss black. waited 48 hours to start the gloss.

I went with minwax brushing lacquer to give it a try..

the first coat ate through the paint and primer, crinkled up, but only in some spots and mostly on one speaker and stand while the other was fine?

any ideas?

The products you are using are not compatible. The strong solvent (lacquer thinner) in the lacquer is attacking the oil based paint. This MIGHT be avoided if you let the paint dry for a longer period.

If you want to use clear lacquer as the top coat, you should use pigmented lacquer for the base coat. To prime the raw MDF, I use clear solvent based polyurethane and let this dry for at least 24 hours.

If you want to continue using the oil (alkyd) based paint, use clear polyurethane as the top coat. You will need to sand the base coat with fine sand paper after it has thoroughly dried, if you don't spray continuously from base coat to clear.

[R-Carpenter]

Hi Ant.
Have you tried Mirca Abralon abrasives?


Cuts down time and cost in a half. It may be more expensive to start but the abrasive discs don't load up quiet as fast as wet-dry paper and last longer. I've used Mirca dry and wet with good results also.
http://www.mirka.com/abralon_automot...-1AD3BA1450BB&

This is even better! Cheap too.
http://www.mirka.com/abranet

[jbateman]

Has anyone found a waterborn gloss black paint that they like?
The only one I could find was Crystalac http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/CLU-...coat-CrystaLac


It's "almost" great. The problem I had with it was that it seemed to aerate...as the paint flowed out on the surface, tiny bubbles would begin to form. Many of them would disippate, but quite a few would not. These sanded away easily in the rub out process, but if they had not occured in the first place, the "piano black" would have been almost perfect right off the gun.

I'd still like to find something better, since my next project will be satin black. I don't want to have to sand out bubbles on that, because I'll never get the satin finish to come back to the exact same sheen. Plus these will be quite large boxes.

[John L]

Originally posted by R-Carpenter


This is even better! Cheap too.
http://www.mirka.com/abranet

Thanks Roman.

[MJL21193]

Originally posted by jbateman
Has anyone found a waterborn gloss black paint that they like?

Hi,
I used this waterbased urethane paint from Sherwin Williams.

Very amazing stuff. Tough and ultra fast drying (5 minutes on a warm day in the sunlight).
Very thick in the can, so you need to reduce (with water) about 40%. It sprays smooth at higher pressure (65-80psi). Sanding is easy and doesn't clog the paper.
Tintable in a wide range of colours.

Results, colour sanded and polished, no clear coat:

[tech9_79]

Originally posted by MJL21193



The products you are using are not compatible. The strong solvent (lacquer thinner) in the lacquer is attacking the oil based paint. This MIGHT be avoided if you let the paint dry for a longer period.

If you want to use clear lacquer as the top coat, you should use pigmented lacquer for the base coat. To prime the raw MDF, I use clear solvent based polyurethane and let this dry for at least 24 hours.

If you want to continue using the oil (alkyd) based paint, use clear polyurethane as the top coat. You will need to sand the base coat with fine sand paper after it has thoroughly dried, if you don't spray continuously from base coat to clear.

A pigmented lacquer you say? does this yield more of a hard candy look than a wet mirror look?

Can you recommend a good lacquer and pigment source?

Do you think my $60 husky sprayer is up to the job with lacquer? it did a great job with the paint, virtually no orange peel at all.

Im going to do some digging on water based lacquers, see if its something i should try.

thanks for the info man,

[tech9_79]

Originally posted by MJL21193



Hi,
I used this waterbased urethane paint from Sherwin Williams.

Very amazing stuff. Tough and ultra fast drying (5 minutes on a warm day in the sunlight).
Very thick in the can, so you need to reduce (with water) about 40%. It sprays smooth at higher pressure (65-80psi). Sanding is easy and doesn't clog the paper.
Tintable in a wide range of colours.

Results, colour sanded and polished, no clear coat:

Wow holy cow that looks incredible! forget all that lacquer crap!

Low VOC and looks like its tough as hell as well!
"Formulated specifically for industrial and commercial flooring applications"

nice!! thanks for posting that!!!

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by tech9_79


Wow holy cow that looks incredible! forget all that lacquer crap!

Sorry to hear about you paint system incompatibility problems. As mentioned already you shouldn't mix and match differing types of paints. A fool proof way to avoid this is use the same paints from the same range from the same manufacturer. You'll generally find the respected manufacturers have primers, topcoats, basecoats and clearcoats that are intended to be used together. If your not sure then sound them about choices.

About waterbased finishes - yes the modern waterbased finishes are quite impressive especially when you consider the ones from the 90's.

However the best gloss and depth still comes from a separate clearcoat and basecoat. I doubt there's much difference in durability for the purposes of loudspeaker cabinets. A 3 stage 2k paint system is pretty much the goal but its dangerous and requires professional equipment to spray.

Whether the extra effort and cost is worth that is another thing.

Personally unless your really looking for the type of finish you see on show cars then I can't see the point in using anything other than products such as those that John suggested. They're easy to use, fast drying, durable and good looking.

I've not used Sherwin William but the Lechler waterbased sounds like a comparable products and worked a treat when I tried it out. I still prefer a 3 stage (prime/base/clear) automotive finish but its mainly because of the extra gloss.

The important part in all this is good surface prep and an excellent primer. Get those right and the rest just falls into place.

[ShinOBIWAN]

Originally posted by R-Carpenter
Hi Ant.
Have you tried Mirca Abralon abrasives?


Cuts down time and cost in a half. It may be more expensive to start but the abrasive discs don't load up quiet as fast as wet-dry paper and last longer. I've used Mirca dry and wet with good results also.
http://www.mirka.com/abralon_automot...-1AD3BA1450BB&

This is even better! Cheap too.
http://www.mirka.com/abranet

I haven't.

That's a coincidence because I just bought a pneumatic DA sander to replace the palm sander. So far I've only has a very brief play with it and haven't seen the results of the swap yet. I'll be able to test drive and see what it offers over the palm sander on the next project.

The pads I have for it are from 3M. They do some of the most respected wet and dry papers so I figured their sanding disc would be a safe bet too.

I'll check out the Mirka ones. I spotted those when ordering the 3M but passed them up as I'd never heard of them.