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Old 23rd July 2006, 09:17 AM   #41
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Default Re: Wagner or Spray Cans?

Quote:
Originally posted by peterphan
First off, thanks to ShinOBIWAN and the other posters for their insights and advice. I'm inspired.

I want to finish a pair of homemade DECWARE High Definition Towers in glossy black, like ShinOBIWAN's original post. I don't have a HVLP gun nor air compressor, and can't justify buying either for a one-time project. A friend owns a Wagner hand-held spray painter, which I know is far from professional. As I understand it, the Wagner doesn't allow any fine tuning to control the atomization or pressure. Which would you recommend: using spray cans or the Wagner?
I'm not sure, I'd maybe lean towards the Wagner. The main advantage is that you can use quality automotive paints rather than the inferior stuff that comes in most cans. I suspect the Wagner will lay down more paint in consistent fashion too but you'll probably have to a good practice with it first.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 09:20 AM   #42
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Quote:
The black basecoat and the clearcoats aren't mixed, they are sprayed on seperately - first the black, then the clearcoat and afterwards you do the rubbing down and gloss work.
That does seem to make sense, so how many coats of each?
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Old 23rd July 2006, 09:24 AM   #43
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If your spraying MDF then you need a good few coats a primer (10+) with sanding every few coats. Then just a couple of the black basecoat to ensure coverage and then around 10 coats of clearcoat so you've got a nice thick gloss layer to work with when sanding and rubbing out.

There's quite a bit info I passed onto a friend, I'll dig it and post it since its fairly detailed.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 12:49 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by ShinOBIWAN
If your spraying MDF then you need a good few coats a primer (10+) with sanding every few coats. Then just a couple of the black basecoat to ensure coverage and then around 10 coats of clearcoat so you've got a nice thick gloss layer to work with when sanding and rubbing out.

There's quite a bit info I passed onto a friend, I'll dig it and post it since its fairly detailed.
I use Zinser sanding sealer. It's an alcohol based sealer so you can clean out the spray gun with denatured alcohol. I tried to use the Turbinaire "ProCoat" Sanding Sealer on my most recent project, but every can of the stuff we opened (at the dealer) was "polymerized". Turbinaire makes a sprayable nice pore filler.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 02:04 PM   #45
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Default Re: Wagner or Spray Cans?

Quote:
Originally posted by peterphan
First off, thanks to ShinOBIWAN and the other posters for their insights and advice. I'm inspired.

I want to finish a pair of homemade DECWARE High Definition Towers in glossy black, like ShinOBIWAN's original post. I don't have a HVLP gun nor air compressor, and can't justify buying either for a one-time project. A friend owns a Wagner hand-held spray painter, which I know is far from professional. As I understand it, the Wagner doesn't allow any fine tuning to control the atomization or pressure. Which would you recommend: using spray cans or the Wagner?
You might look at

http://www.prevalspraygun.com/

I've never used one, but the lady at the store where I buy my automotive paints says she sells a loy of them.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 02:20 PM   #46
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For more information on spraying here's some suggestions I passed onto Vikash:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...705#post908705

Much of it applies to a compressor/gun setup but it would work all the same for whatever really.
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Old 23rd July 2006, 02:22 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackinnj


I use Zinser sanding sealer. It's an alcohol based sealer so you can clean out the spray gun with denatured alcohol. I tried to use the Turbinaire "ProCoat" Sanding Sealer on my most recent project, but every can of the stuff we opened (at the dealer) was "polymerized". Turbinaire makes a sprayable nice pore filler.
Yep, I do something similar:

Quote:
I see that many folks, including myself are frustrated by the fact that MDF has an annoying tendancy to expand and spoil, be it with veneered or more severly with sprayed and painted finishes.

Some folks have suggested PVA/water mixes, shellac, level filling, resins etc.

I've tried most and still get the expansion to a greater or lesser degree but finally I have found something that truely works.

Its actually used for stabilising rotting wood and uses the moisture within the wood to actually form a chemical bond that looks the fibres in a resin cast that penetrates into the MDF. Once set its water proof and very tough, much tougher than untreated MDF, which also means I'd suggest you do all you sanding and detail work before applying this as it will cause you some extra work. Its excellent for applying spray finishes onto though as its almost like steel in its substrate toughness.

The one that I used is Bonda Wood Hardener:

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/b/BONWH/

I'd also highly recommend using void free plywood, its better than MDF by far for jointing and for absolute troublefree finishing use the wood hardener on this also.

Hope this helps folks out there, who like me, probably pull their hair out when they try to spray cabinets when faced with this problem.
Which is from this thread: A solution to MDF expansion on joints, translams etc.
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Old 24th July 2006, 12:27 AM   #48
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Just a few thoughts.

I've had and used a Wagner gun for years. You can buy lacquer spray tips for them; finer hole, I think.

I've sprayed some car panels, color + clear, and although you get a bit of orange peel, to tell you the truth, I've seen more on brand new cars! You just need to wet sand and compund the surface well.

Regarding using many coats of clear. I'd worry about that. I've heard that since clear has no binders in it (?), it can be prone to breakdown if too many coats are used. Someone may be bale to confirm this. I mean long term.

Also, practice! It took me ages to learn how to hold the gun at a consistent angle and start and stop past the edges of the work. Also, make sure you have a clean gun & work piece and your lacquer is mixed perfectly. A warm day is also a must.

Mos
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Old 24th July 2006, 12:40 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mos Fetish
Regarding using many coats of clear. I'd worry about that. I've heard that since clear has no binders in it (?), it can be prone to breakdown if too many coats are used. Someone may be bale to confirm this. I mean long term.
I'm not sure what you mean by breakdown. I assume you mean peeling, flaking or something similar?

I've never heard that one but maybe its true for certain products and on certain materials, if you use a system of paints that are made for building up multiple coats as confirmed by the manufacturer then you should be able to avoid that but I've never seen, read or heard about that before so not sure how much a concern it should be.

One thing I have noticed with 1k clearcoat is that it takes forever to harden with a lot of coats - 1 month+. I switched to 2k exactly because of that and it passes the finger nail test after 7 days.

Another thing to note is you only get a really deep finish by using a thick clearcoat layer.
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Old 24th July 2006, 01:48 PM   #50
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Someone mentioned Wagner I think..... don't. They don't atomize they just spit, and they don't spit consistantly due to running off their own pump they have a non consistant air stream. I wouldnt' waste automotive paint in it. You actually can find some decent spray bomb paints, Krylon actually gives a nice finish, the trick is to lay it on thick enough so that it flows.

As per thick layering of clear, key words were paint system. Don't mix brands or types and it should all stay put in the long term. Letting each coat cure a little more between coats can help drying time, or adjusting the level of thinner.

Alot of those layers get cut down while color sanding so you're not actually left with ten coats. It's also a good idea because it helps build a thicker layer around corners and the like, where it has a tendency to be a little thinner and could more easily be sanded right off, which you don't want to have happen.
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