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Old 22nd May 2013, 04:51 PM   #431
Renron is offline Renron  United States
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Get-Lit,
That is a wonderful plan, you will end up with the best of all options and the least amount of frustration (and sanding) . Good Call.
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Old 30th May 2013, 04:36 PM   #432
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Default finally got around to it....

OK here are my "Satisfactory" Results

The Right Speaker has no Lacquer Clear coat.

The Left Speaker has Lacquer Clear Coat and the Baffle was fine grit sanded and polished.

My formula:
- Shellac Seal Coat (dont over apply it and get runs because it doesnt dry and becomes like gum when sanding... sigh. I put wayy too much)
- Zinnister BIN Primer (white. It dries super quick.. 30 min. You can apply multiple coat and it sands real good. I dry sanded but I should have wet sanded instead. I sanded it perfectly flat before base coat)
- Rustoleum Oil Based Crimson Red Quart (Piece of crap paint from Lowes... too bad I didn't know better. I ended up spraying this paint thinned 1:1 with Acetone. Once I was done screwing around I was able to spray it pretty well with little orange peel. Look at pics for the worst orange peel on the top of the speaker)
- Velspar Clear High Gloss Lacquer (spray can. It sucks also, maybe you need to apply thin coats but if you do that you get a ton of orange peel and it doesnt cover well. Maybe 2.5 cans per speaker... $5 a can)


My Right speaker came out pretty good with just the Oil based paint but that paint will never polish or dry. You can leave some nasty smudges that are super hard to get off because of the paint. Maybe I applied too thick but it came out decent and it can be left like that and most people wouldn't mind at all, from a few feet away it looks awesome. The reflection is not as great tho, kind of muddy.

My left speaker got the full treatment but I only polished the baffle. It took me a good 2 hours to get the shine and cover the scratches that I wanted. Mixing the Oil based paint with a Lacquer clear coat is not optimal but it worked. You do need a decent amount of lacquer tho so you wont rub out the corners when you are polishing... because polishing is not easy but it is polishable compared to the Oil based paint.

I finally figued out how to make a coupe of passes with the Lacquer can. I would do it in a left-to-right motion and go over again from right-to-left. Than carefuly overlap the previous spray and continue to cover the whole thing. I would call that one coat. Do two or three coats withing 15-30min intervals per side. I layed my speakers flat when painted and did each side individually over 1 week maybe.

I also waited for 1 week fo it to "dry" but it never passed the nail test... maybe because of the oil based undercoat or crappy lacquer clear.. or both being crappy alltogether.

Polishing: Using a rotary Ryoby Buffer.
- Wet sand down imperfection in the coat till satisfactory and finish with 2000 grit
-Turtle Wax Polishing Compound (it is rough and gray looking. Use it to reduce the scratches and get a bit of sheen on the surface. look at my pics). I used the buffer, several passes, reapplying compound, untill i got a bit of a reflection.
-Meguires Ultra Cut Compound (apply on buffing pad and go to town, several passes were made at each section and reaplying the compound) I was lucky to not have rubbed off any of the clear coat but you need be careful. I made sure to put on an extra layer of Clear on my edges and corners. That might have helped.

TAfter of two hours polishing JUST THE BAFFLE he final results were good but not piano gloss. As you can see from the pics there were these scratches/paint texture cracks that I couldn;t buff out or reappeared rigght after. The clear was not nail test proof so that might be the cause but at that point I had a hard time photographing those texture marks/cracks and from two feet away I couldn't tell unless the light was just right and i was really looking at it.

Anyhow. Hope that helps. MY formula is not complete yet but one day it will be!

Better paint definately! Spray Gun too! I could have saved me time with Spray cans actually and mayve gotten the same results... sigh.

I am currently working on repainting a DVD cover with automotive spray cans... new formula lol.


typos everywhere, I know :/ ... deal with it
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Old 30th May 2013, 04:37 PM   #433
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Default The final Results

Here are the final results
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Old 30th June 2013, 07:07 PM   #434
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Absolutely stunning. At first glance, the tweeters sort of reminded of the old EMIT-K that Infinity had back in the nineties, I believe. If your speakers could be compared to a woman, they'd probably look something like this:
Bright Red Bassist girl.jpg

(Picture copyright free from the web)
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Old 12th August 2013, 03:31 PM   #435
WagBoss is offline WagBoss  Canada
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Is there any way to see the pictures from the first post? None of them show up for me. Does anyone have them saved?
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Old 7th November 2013, 08:39 PM   #436
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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OK, as this is the most current post discussing MDF finishing here, I am going to tag on instead of starting anew.

I too have gotten finishes as dramatic and successful as these red beauties, only to have the seams start to show 6 months later. I did some recent tests where I glued MDF corners up, covered them with two coats of poly resin, sanded smooth and painted to see no trace of the joint at all. None. 2 months later, I see the seam sinking in. Here is my thought: It is the water based glue. As dry as we think it is, over time it continues to dry shrinking the seam.

So, 6 test blocks were made up. 2 glued with Titebond, 2 with epoxy and 2 with polyester resin. I am thinking of just sealer/primer/enamel on one set, two coats of resin/primer/paint the second set of three and let them sit for 6 months. I will bake them all at 125 for an hour to stabilize the humidity as much as I can. They will have 3/4 radius on the endgrain.
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Old 8th November 2013, 08:24 AM   #437
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Yes the culprit is the glue. PVA based glues shrink and are not solid so the joint moves around a tiny amount. In the UK we can get a glue called Cascamite that is a urea formaldehyde powder you mix with water. This glue has no give and will sort the problem, even though it's water based the shrinkage is stopped after a few hours. Your epoxy should also be effective. Polyester resin should also work from a cosmetic viewpoint, but it does not adhere well to MDF and the joint will be relatively weak.
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Last edited by richie00boy; 8th November 2013 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 8th November 2013, 10:09 AM   #438
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
OK, as this is the most current post discussing MDF finishing here, I am going to tag on instead of starting anew.

I too have gotten finishes as dramatic and successful as these red beauties, only to have the seams start to show 6 months later. I did some recent tests where I glued MDF corners up, covered them with two coats of poly resin, sanded smooth and painted to see no trace of the joint at all. None. 2 months later, I see the seam sinking in. Here is my thought: It is the water based glue. As dry as we think it is, over time it continues to dry shrinking the seam.

So, 6 test blocks were made up. 2 glued with Titebond, 2 with epoxy and 2 with polyester resin. I am thinking of just sealer/primer/enamel on one set, two coats of resin/primer/paint the second set of three and let them sit for 6 months. I will bake them all at 125 for an hour to stabilize the humidity as much as I can. They will have 3/4 radius on the endgrain.
Quote:
Originally Posted by richie00boy View Post
Yes the culprit is the glue. PVA based glues shrink and are not solid so the joint moves around a tiny amount. In the UK we can get a glue called Cascamite that is a urea formaldehyde powder you mix with water. This glue has no give and will sort the problem, even though it's water based the shrinkage is stopped after a few hours. Your epoxy should also be effective. Polyester resin should also work from a cosmetic viewpoint, but it does not adhere well to MDF and the joint will be relatively weak.
Indeed. For what it's worth, I also found that a 2-part urethane paint (Isolack, if I recall correctly) seemed to have a bit of "give" in that it resisted the MDF joint movement. Not nice stuff to spray though (isocyanate -> dangerous)

Whilst I haven't tried it, one technique I've seen mentioned was to glue your joints, then use a 'V' groove router bit to cut a shallow channel along the glue line (just a couple of mm deep/wide), and fill with an automotive filler (e.g. P38 in the UK).

I believe that Ant (ShinOBIWAN) has sometimes glued a thin layer of a cheap wood veneer over a face with joints, as that can sand & fill flat, and will hide the joint movement).
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Old 10th November 2013, 02:32 PM   #439
tvrgeek is offline tvrgeek  United States
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If flat joints, then things like routing them out may work. I do full 3/4 or larger radius on all 12 edges. It makes quite a difference in HF response. If you need to cut into the joint, then I believe there is something wrong with the joint. Let's fix what is wrong. I do not believe it is movement, but a sinking of the PVA and/or MDF as it drys over a long period. Just the same, pin-holes appear. This is not at all unlike automotive issues.

Quite a few companies produce mirror-finish that does not have seam issues. HOW?

Yea. Imaron is tough paint. I don't have a full suit and pressurized breathing so I can't use it. It will not cover up an insecure foundation though. I used Dupont Centari with good results, but a year later, the seams sunk in. That set had sanding sealer, several coats of auto lacquer primer, several color coats. If I scuffed them and shot a few coats of clear, that may hide the seams, but the year wait is not very "production"

Day one.
I made up 10 test pieces. Each of two sets was glued with PVA, Poly resin, epoxy, superglue, and Locktight G06. (some new stuff). All seem strong enough. All soaked into the surface a little. It was hard to get the super glue thick enough to really fill the joint. Gell may be better.

Day two:
Routed the edge with a 3/4 roundover. So, the seam is just at the edge of the contour. I sanded true with 120 and a belt sander. Then 220 pad sander. I coated one set with 50% varnish and thinner, the other set with a lacquer based "sanding sealer". The burnished surface of the MDF was scuffed. I am trying to avoid the sealing with poly resin. It actually works very well ( at least two coats), but spraying it is a mess and the goal here is to establish what is wrong with the glue joint. Then I will worry about the perfect flat substrate to shoot the color on. It takes too long for the resin sealer coat to sink in. It will in a year.

Day three:
Sanded the varnish set with 320. End grain was still rough. Re-coated with the 50-50 and it soaked it up just as quick as the first coat. Set off to dry. Sanding sealer sealed much better, filled the end grain much better, but was un-sandable. It gums up even gentle hand sanding with 220 or 320. Forget a machine. The hint is the label says "easy sand" I should know, the first rule of advertising is to take your worst attribute and advertise it. I am going to see if a bake at 120 will harden it up.

Of course, hose them down with bed liner and you get a textured almost indestructible finish that could be good for panel resonance suppression.
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Old 10th November 2013, 02:38 PM   #440
Jay1234 is offline Jay1234  United Kingdom
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Hi,

how would you go about getting A nice smooth shiny finish on a beer can i.e. removal of logos & paint. That had been filed with resin, so it was solid.
Would paint stripers work? but leave a nice finish.

Jay
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