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Old 23rd August 2012, 12:22 AM   #391
evanc is offline evanc  United States
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Lacquer retarder. Slow drying thinner that slows drying. Add about 10% and give it a try.
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Old 23rd August 2012, 05:31 AM   #392
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Better results today, still not perfect but getting there. Didn't want to make all the changes at once so essentially just went one at a time. I'm getting a little bit of orange peel but there's a gloss to it now, and it feels like lacquer...not like I spat on my speaker then kicked dirt on it..

Lowering the air at the turbine, made the biggest difference, I also tried a few different needles and seemed to get the best results with a 1.3mm tip. Didn't thin it, I thought I had some lacquer thinner left over from a previous job but couldn't find it... so that will be my first stop tomorrow morning and now that I think I'm getting a better feel for how it all comes together I think that might get me the result I'm looking for..

Thanks for the help so far, it's very much appreciated! I'll bring my camera tomorrow as well and take some pictures of the process as well, warts and all so others can hopefully learn from my mistakes.
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Old 24th August 2012, 04:18 PM   #393
Renron is offline Renron  United States
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Lacquer Retarder is a good idea, It really depends on the temperature and humidity, as to which one should be used.
Higher heat = Retarder

Again good point with the retarder, I had forgotten. I use all Water Based stuff anymore.

Ron
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Old 30th August 2012, 12:07 AM   #394
TheGimp is offline TheGimp  United States
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For shooting lacquer on small cabinets, how well would a DeVilbiss EGA503 work? Tip is a 390.

If not well, how about a MBC-510-704E?
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Old 30th August 2012, 02:04 AM   #395
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On the topic of dealing with butt joins in MDF, I've done quite a bit of experimenting, trying different strategies. The veneer method is good but leaves you with sharp edges that you might not want. What if you want butt joins AND roudovers? What I've found to work is quite labour intensive, but it involves first applying two part bog that is reinforced with fibreglass - available at automotive suppliers. Very important to apply it with enough hardener and also in temperatures that are not too low, or you run into problems with sanding it, even a month after applying. 15 degrees C minimum. Then you sand it smooth and apply 2 part bog over to smooth it out, then sand. Next you paint on (or ideally spray) fibreglass resin to the entire inside and outside of the box. Or even better, apply bitumin rubber to the inside as damping, first with a primer coat then successive coats mixing 6mm screenings in - this is for damping as well as sealing the box. The idea behind this is to now lock in the moisture by waterproofing the MDF, to keep it stable. Now prime and paint. Apply a guide coat over the primer then sand it all back until you see none of the colour left. Any that you find is showing all the dips, so you fill those with stopper putty, a very smooth putty intended to go over paints. It's very easy to work with and if you have brush marks from the resin, then you might just about be icing the whole cake with it. Fortunately it's easier than 2 part regular bog and fibrefill.

Even doing all the above you can still get a slight butt join seam coming through, you have to be quite meticulous and not in a hurry. If a seam appears you might have to repeat some steps in further layers.

Now it's been suggested by a commentor on my blog to use epoxy rather than polyester based fibreglass resin. It's stronger.

All this is a pretty extreme effort!
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Old 30th August 2012, 07:57 AM   #396
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulspencer View Post
On the topic of dealing with butt joins in MDF, I've done quite a bit of experimenting, trying different strategies...
Yep. It's a PITA... and that's a lot of work!

The only thing I've found to work really well is to use a 2-part urethane based automotive paint called IsoLack. The first few coats will just disappear into the MDF 'end grain', but after letting it dry, then sanding, it appears to stabilise it sufficiently that several more paint coats will then work. I think the product has a slight elasticity, which may help.

The problem of course is that 2-part auto paints are nasty and very dangerous to spray .

A friend of mine used some epoxy paints (used for model aircraft) and that seemed to work on a small test block, but I understand the paint is very expensive.

A US builder here reported good results using a 1-part urethane floor enamel by (I think) ArmorSeal, followed by a water based colour coat. The problem is that the ArmorSeal product isn't available in the UK, so I can't test it. I understand the formation of MDF is different in the US to the UK too - so that may have a bearing. If it worked though it'd be ideal as it's all relatively safe stuff to use.

One useful idea is to remember to keep the unpainted boxes in their ultimate destination for some weeks before painting - so they have roughly the right moisture content before they get sprayed.
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Old 30th August 2012, 08:06 AM   #397
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGimp View Post
For shooting lacquer on small cabinets, how well would a DeVilbiss EGA503 work? Tip is a 390.

If not well, how about a MBC-510-704E?
I'd suspect the latter would be better. I'm sure a touch up gun would work, but the cups are generally also small, as they're not really intended for painting 'large' areas (i.e. even a small speaker cabinet).

The info sheet that comes with the paints you use should advise on pressures and suitable tip sizes.
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Old 30th August 2012, 01:25 PM   #398
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Hye guys,
I am going to build a small paint room in my garage/storage with an exhaust fan. Pretty much for one speaker at a time. I will use a mover's dolly to spin the speaker around so it will be a one side paint position for the most part. Any tips? Have you guys built paint rooms?

Also I am thinking about sticking to spray cans first but I might consider a budget spray gun. Any recommanded bundget spray guns out there (USA)?
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Old 30th August 2012, 05:14 PM   #399
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Make sure you either use waterbased products only or select a fan with brushless motor. Solvent paints and brushed motor is an explosion risk.

Having a spray setup I would never go back to cans, but if you are only building a set of speakers the investment is probably too much. But then again you must be planning more if you are building a spray room?
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Old 30th August 2012, 07:57 PM   #400
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zxgravediggerxz View Post
Hye guys,
I am going to build a small paint room in my garage/storage with an exhaust fan. Pretty much for one speaker at a time. I will use a mover's dolly to spin the speaker around so it will be a one side paint position for the most part. Any tips? Have you guys built paint rooms?

Also I am thinking about sticking to spray cans first but I might consider a budget spray gun. Any recommanded bundget spray guns out there (USA)?
As Rich noted - there is an explosion risk with solvent paints and an unsuitable fan.

I'd personally also be worried about spraying in an enclosed space (even with an exhaust fan) without some form of air feed. Just too much risk of breathing in stuff you really don't want hitting your lungs.

I'd love to set up an indoor spray booth, but wouldn't consider it unless I could get a clean air feed. The problem is that most small compressors I've seen don't have the capacity to run both a gun and an air-fed mask.
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