A 'how to' for High Gloss Finishing

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Shin,

I decided I wanted to try out your technique, so I went out today and made a couple of purchases. But, I'm a little confused about timing and how long to wait between steps.

I bought a spraycan of Benjamin Moore Utilac High Gloss. My understanding (which is basically never painting anything before) is the laquor is harder and less time is needed between sanding and adding the rubbing compound. I was told at the Benjamin Moore store that I should wait about 2 weeks after sanding to start putting on the rubbing compound, while at Highland Hardware they said around 72 hours.

So how long between step painting and the first layer of rubbing compound?
How long between layers of rubbing compound?
How long between rubbing compound and the polish?

Thanks,

Josh
 
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edjosh23 said:
Shin,

I decided I wanted to try out your technique, so I went out today and made a couple of purchases. But, I'm a little confused about timing and how long to wait between steps.

I bought a spraycan of Benjamin Moore Utilac High Gloss. My understanding (which is basically never painting anything before) is the laquor is harder and less time is needed between sanding and adding the rubbing compound. I was told at the Benjamin Moore store that I should wait about 2 weeks after sanding to start putting on the rubbing compound, while at Highland Hardware they said around 72 hours.

So how long between step painting and the first layer of rubbing compound?
How long between layers of rubbing compound?
How long between rubbing compound and the polish?

Thanks,

Josh

Hi Josh,

All paints are have different drying time requirements, sometimes this is significant and sometimes virtually identical. Certain types of paint like to be baked other need IR lamps and most are air dried. The best thing to do is follow the directions on the tin. Since your using laquer out of a can then give it at least 2 weeks to harden and shrink before sanding.

Once you've done your sanding then then you can apply the compound, polish and wax straight afterwards, there isn't a waiting time between any of the steps I've shown in this thread. The only wait is between spraying coats and the time you need to leave the laquer before starting to work it.
 
454Casull said:
If using a clear coat on top of the base coat, is one supposed to sand between the last base coat and the first clear?

If the base coat is a pearl or metalflake, do not sand, as you will expose the flake surfaces and cause irregularities in the finish.

If the base coat is a solid color, I'd go ahead and sand it to 320 if using a consumer level spray gun or spray can.
 
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edjosh23 said:
Shin,

I'm not sure if this is a laquer, it just says High Gloss Enamel.
On the tin it says dries to touch in 15min and dries to use in 1 hour.

Thanks,

Josh

Enamel would suggest a hardwearing surface, I really don't know without spraying some of it. Is it definitely a clearcoat and not high gloss black enamel? If its clear coat then I say it should be fine.

I'd ignore that about it being dry within one hour. With single stage finishes such as those from spraycans you need to let the paint harden and shring back so its completely stable before you start working on it.
 
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454Casull said:
If using a clear coat on top of the base coat, is one supposed to sand between the last base coat and the first clear?

All the gloss comes from the clearcoat, you don't have to worry too much about orange peel on your base - what I'm saying is you won't see the orange peel on a solid colour basecoat once the clear is applied. Use discretion though and aim to really minimise it, if it doesn't seem right then sand and then spray a final light coat. So my recommendation would be to have a very good(near perfect) primed surface that you've sanded flat then carefully spray the base(just enough to get coverage) without sanding, then lots of clearcoat and wait for that to harden and then flat out the clearcoat. That's pretty much how I work.

A lot really depends on the primer stage, you really need this to be spot on with MDF and wood. Apply lots in a consistent fashion and sand with 400grit every few coats. I'd say I use around 15+ coats of primer but its absolutely essentially on wood. The primer is the foundation of the whole paint job, so its arguably more important that the clear and basecoats.
 
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sqlkev said:
Sorry if i miss this, shin, but what was the type/name of the primer and base coat that you use? How did you apply the primer if it wasn't from a can? spray?

Hi Kev

The basecoats, pearls and clearcoats I use are from a UK company called Cambridgeshire Coatings and the paint line is called Rage:

http://www.rage-extreme.com/

The grey primer is just standard cheapish stuff from a company called Tetrosyl.
 
Anyone have suggestions for brands or features when purchasing a compressor and spray gun useful for projects such as the ones discussed in this thread? The number of options (pressure feed, siphon feed, gravity feed, HVLP...) is a bit bewildering for a newcomer. I'm not likely to turn pro, but I don't want to buy junk either. Any assistance in narrowing my search would be most appreciated.
 
Well you want to make sure the compressor can keep up, if you stop mid way to let it build pressure you just screwed up your paint job. So make sure it has the capability to keep up to the CFM of the gun.

The one accessory you can't live without if you're going to be doing painting is an oil/water seperator, there's always condensation build up in the tank and you get all kinds of crap out of it, perfect way to botch an expensive paint job.
 
Compressor: Buy the most powerful, largest tank one that you can afford. Once you have a compressor, all sorts of air tools will catch your fancy. Air sanders, grinders and polishers will use a LOT of air. A big tank helps you run a bit longer before the compressor needs time to catch up. Anything over 3-4 peak horsepower will need 220V though.

Guns:

HVLP is a bit harder to learn to use, but more efficiently applies paint to the surface. More of your finish ends up on the project and less as overspray.

The Finishline3 guns by deVilbiss have a loyal weekend warrior following. I recently bought one but have not had the opportunity to use it. Under $130 at spraygundepot.com with a gun mount regulator.

Gravity feed is good for most non production jobs and wastes less finish than suction feed. Pressure feed is for when you turn pro and have a couple of pianos to paint every day.

The regulator on the gun is a good idea - gives better control of the pressure. Set your tank reg at 80 psi or so, then your gun regulator at the required pressure.

A large regulator/filter at the compressor is a good idea - it will help get the moisture and oil out of the air stream. The only way to really get the air dry is with a desiccant, though.

Use large ID hose, and as little of it as you can - say 25 feet of 3/8"

Do not use quick disconnects with HVLP, they cause a lot of pressure drop. If you must, use just one, and make sure it is a large body HVLP rated disconnect.

Use a filter/desiccant just before your gun mounted regulator. You can buy a "desiccant snake" - a bit of hose with a desiccant fill, but they are expensive. For small jobs like speakers, a $7 cartridge desiccant like those at Harbor freight are fine - and you don't have to kick yourself for forgetting to cap your hose and using up your snake drying the garage.
 
Few said:
Anyone have suggestions for brands or features when purchasing a compressor and spray gun useful for projects such as the ones discussed in this thread? The number of options (pressure feed, siphon feed, gravity feed, HVLP...) is a bit bewildering for a newcomer. I'm not likely to turn pro, but I don't want to buy junk either. Any assistance in narrowing my search would be most appreciated.

I gave my oldest son a Husky HVLP gun (of course he had given me a compressor a few years back) and it works beautifully. They are reasonably priced at Home Depot. Make sure you get a decent compressor.
 
Bobellis said just about all you need to know. I used Devilbiss guns, a step up from the finish line guns for clears and such. I do have to finish line guns for primers only, I think its a number 3 cap. There is a guy on Ebay, autobody depot I believe, he has excellent prices on his guns.

My compressor is an older Sears model, belt drive. It introduces oil into the system, most of the new ones are diaphram type and do not introduce oil into the air. But they do not have the ouput of mine, everything being the same. The tank on mine is 32 gallon, but I have a 60 gallon tank along with it. I bought a used one for my wifes garage, just like mine but with a smaller tank $75 was a good deal.

The compressor will be rated for output at normally to ranges X scfm @ 90 psi and X scfm @ 45. My JGA gun requires 23psi at the gun for 10 psi @ the cap and uses 13.5 scfm if I remember correctly, the primer guns use the same inputs but less scfm, around 9.

The more compressor you can afford the better, a 5HP drive is perfect for the home use but I know folks that get by very well in the lower ranges.

The gun really depends on the type of paint/material you are using. Heavy paints need a larger orifice, lighter paint, smaller.

Here is a tickler
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DeVI...tegoryZ43987QQihZ009QQitemZ190009042148QQrdZ1

I prefer the aluminium cups to the plastic, they are far more durable and the chemicals do not attack them. If all yopu plan on doing is speakers, then a touch up/panel gun is what you may want.

Since oil and water are a problem with compressors, I use a dedicated hose for painting. I do have quick connects on mine, but not all quick connects are the same. If you buy the one at Harbor Freight or simular stores, you get a large restriction in air flow.

I was try to bust a nut on a pinion gear once and the impact couldn't budge it. It had done this many times before. Thinking the gun was worn out, I bought another, just to have the same results. Swapped the quick connects (Harbor Freights) to some I knew were superior and the nut spun of on the first kick. So I had a new impact I didn't need. Look at the orifice size of the quick connect, you'll see.

An oil/water seperator is a good thing, but there are ways to get around one. Lots of typing here, if you are interested, post again. Right now I need to mow my jungle.
 
Thanks for all the very useful replies. Clearly I have some research to do before taking the plunge, but I feel much better informed. In addition to the basic information on types of guns to look for, tips like avoiding disconnects with undersized orifices are very useful---and hard to pick up by doing web searches. Now I just have to figure out how much I should expect to pay to get set up. A quick look suggests it's not going to be cheap! Thanks again for all the information.

Few
 
Wagner or Spray Cans?

First off, thanks to ShinOBIWAN and the other posters for their insights and advice. I'm inspired.

I want to finish a pair of homemade DECWARE High Definition Towers in glossy black, like ShinOBIWAN's original post. I don't have a HVLP gun nor air compressor, and can't justify buying either for a one-time project. A friend owns a Wagner hand-held spray painter, which I know is far from professional. As I understand it, the Wagner doesn't allow any fine tuning to control the atomization or pressure. Which would you recommend: using spray cans or the Wagner?
 
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Luke said:
Nice work!
So for a good gloss finish I would need black gloss enamel and for an ultra gloss mix in some clearcoat, is this right?
If so how much clearcoat do i put in the black enamel paint?

thanks Arthur

Thanks,

The black basecoat and the clearcoats aren't mixed, they are sprayed on seperately - first the black, then the clearcoat and afterwards you do the rubbing down and gloss work.
 
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