Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Construction Tips

Construction Tips Construction techniques and tips

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th May 2008, 03:06 AM   #111
Account disabled at member's request
 
MJL21193's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by tech9_79
John, im sold.

so your using a generic clear urethane as a primer/sealer, then the armorseal. Did you use several thin coats or was it done with heavier passes?
Yes, the MDF should as sealed as possible from moisture absorption, and solvent based urethane does this very well.
I use Flecto Varathane Professional in the black can which dries fast. 2 or three thin spray coats of this to prime.
If you are going for the piano black finish, you need to have the paint layer thick enough to sand without burning through. I have done 10 or more coats with about 5 minutes between coats.

Quote:
Originally posted by TerryO

Alkyd enamel is, IMHO, little better than pigmented tar.

As for the water-based urethane, you might be on to something there, as I had a conversation with the Sherwin-Williams people a year or so ago and they were pretty excited about their line of water-based Urethane paint.

The alkyd certainly doesn't get as hard or as durable as the urethane, that's for sure. If you can get the gloss up, it will not retain it - dulling after a short while.

Sherwin Williams has several very interesting looking waterbased coatings. I took the chance on the armorseal last year, not knowing for certain how well it would work. I'm glad I did.
They have introduced a new line of automotive waterborne paint: AWX waterborne basecoat/clearcoat.
This looks like the way of the future.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg im001082.jpg (95.5 KB, 1489 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 24th May 2008, 03:31 AM   #112
Account disabled at member's request
 
MJL21193's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by sploo


Thanks John. I'm sure you've posted this before, but what was the product for this one, another Sherwin-Williams?

My experience with the urethanes has been with a white paint called Isolack (can't remember the manufacturer off the top of my head).

The 1k covered raw MDF well, and hasn't shown signs of the lines after drying. However, I found it never really goes fully hard (a fingernail pressed hard will cause marks).


Looking good. Are you planning on leaving them without a 2K coat?

The SB urethane can be any good quality for finishing furniture. Like I said above, I use Flecto but I'm sure the other brands will be fine.

It's odd that the paint you used didn't harden enough to resist the "fingernail test". I've never had that problem.

I am in the process of painting my mains yet again. I think I might have been a bit hasty last year, and compromised the finish by doing everything a bit too quickly.
I'm waiting on the availability of the AWX paint linked above. I'll be using that system from now on, and it includes a low VOC clear.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 09:30 AM   #113
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
The SB urethane can be any good quality for finishing furniture. Like I said above, I use Flecto but I'm sure the other brands will be fine.
Hi John,

Thanks for the info. I've been doing some searches for the "Flecto Varathane Professional", with mixed results. Is this the right stuff? (http://www.harvesterfloors.com/Merch..._Code=VAR11100)

I've seen (and got) clear satin clear polyurethane varnish, but is this product not a varnish?

BTW Is the Varathane another Sherwin-Williams, or is it made by someone else?


Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
It's odd that the paint you used didn't harden enough to resist the "fingernail test". I've never had that problem.
Yea, you do have to be pretty brutal - pressing a fingernail into it as hard as possible. However, it does leave a mark, whereas the 2K stuff was solid after just 12 hours.

The best results I've had with sealing MDF is, as you originally stated, to just use the urethane on the bare MDF. Any of the test blocks that I attempted to seal with something else first are showing faint lines. This is why I'm so interested in the 1K urethane clear, as that plus a waterbased paint is going to be so much safer than trying to coat things with the 2K urethane paint.


Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
I am in the process of painting my mains yet again. I think I might have been a bit hasty last year, and compromised the finish by doing everything a bit too quickly.
I'm waiting on the availability of the AWX paint linked above. I'll be using that system from now on, and it includes a low VOC clear.
That is always the problem with this kind of work; the longer you leave each state (usually) the better. It's a pain when you want something finished!
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 09:27 PM   #114
Account disabled at member's request
 
MJL21193's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally posted by sploo

Thanks for the info. I've been doing some searches for the "Flecto Varathane Professional", with mixed results. Is this the right stuff? (http://www.harvesterfloors.com/Merch..._Code=VAR11100)

I've seen (and got) clear satin clear polyurethane varnish, but is this product not a varnish?

BTW Is the Varathane another Sherwin-Williams, or is it made by someone else?

See pic below for the one I use. This exact one may not be available in the UK, but any good oil based polyurethane will work. If the paint system that you want to use is 2K, you should use the manufacturers recommended primer. I can swear by the urethane under the waterbased Armorseal, but anything that has strong solvents might attack the poly.
The one you linked too looks like our waterbased one, although it says oil based.

Varathane is by Flecto, which is a sub of Rusoleum, which is in turn owned by RPM international. A tangled web.

Sherwin Williams does oil based poly, but I haven't tried it. The Varathane is cheap ($35.00/gal) and dries fast, so I have no reason to try anything else.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg vapplgloqtlt.jpg (9.9 KB, 1166 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th May 2008, 10:09 PM   #115
Nordic is offline Nordic  South Africa
diyAudio Member
 
Nordic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
My vote goes to 2 part polyurethane paint finishes like Glatex 8, quick curing (i.e. two part), very durable (is used on yachts), super easy to get gloss with foam roler, does not yellow, available in clear as well as a range of colours.

I seems to nearly turn the wood it comes into contact with into plastic... it gives the mirror arearance of old shelaqed furniture, but with a deep gloss, almost looks wet or like glass.

Use disposable rolers as there is no stopping te curing process.

2K is basicaly the same thing, but for cars...
  Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2008, 12:55 AM   #116
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: alaska
This is a great thread and timely too!
I'm getting ready to paint my ZD5 Floorstanders.

I was planning to use the Verathane for the primer and the Armorseal 1k but Sherwin Williams doesn't stock the Armorseal 1K, only the Treadplex. Have to order 4 gallons @ $60/gal if special ordered.

Any suggestions for a good paint that will be compatable with the Verathane?

Thanks,
__________________
cj.9
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd June 2008, 04:24 AM   #117
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: alaska

Nevermind....can't even find the Varathane Professional here!
__________________
cj.9
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd June 2008, 08:52 AM   #118
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Hi cj.9, I see you're having the same supply problems as me!

Over the last week I've contacted Rust-Oleum and Sherwin-Williams about the Varathane and Armorseal respectively, and also a large number of UK based suppliers (to see if they stock anything similiar).

The Varathane is a no-go; with no EU certification labels, Rust-Oleum couldn't even sell me a one off tin.

Sherwin-Williams don't sell the Armorseal in the UK, but have indicated they could ship batches. I'll follow up on this, but I suspect the cost would be prohibitive for small quantities.

Most of the UK suppliers couldn't recommend anything, though I am in contact with a paint specialist who's taken an interest in the application, and I'll see where that goes.

I've also done a little experimentation, sealing some MDF with both a clear solvent based polyurethane varnish, and a white waterbased acrylic primer (yeah, water + MDF = bad, I know).

After giving them a few days to dry, I sanded them smooth, and applied some 2K urethane paint. The 2K causes the poly varnish to wrinkle, but, surprisingly, the acrylic seems happy.

For a project I'm doing at the moment, I might try the acrylic + 2K paint, as it wouldn't be a disaster if it wasn't great. I could/should just apply the urethane to the bare MDF as I know that works, but you use loads of paint (as it soaks in) and I'm running low. I don't want to order more, as I'd like to find a 1K sealer + waterbased paint alternative like the Varathane + Armorseal.

BTW Nordic - someone (you?) had mentioned Glatex 8 in the past, but I've never been able to find it. Could you give me some web links for more info?
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2008, 04:34 PM   #119
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
So the recommendation is oil-based polyurethane for priming and the Armorseal for a final coat?
  Reply With Quote
Old 15th June 2008, 10:54 PM   #120
Account disabled at member's request
 
MJL21193's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Hi 454,
That's my take on it (for now). The results speak for themselves. Best results when you apply a lot of coats in a short time, without letting it run or sag. If you let it dry for too long, you will get "layers" in the paint build. This doesn't happen with lacquer based paints, as each new layer partially dissolves the layer it's going onto. Urethane, whether it's solvent based or water based, will not be dissolved by it's own solvent though, once it's dry.

Depth of the finish and reflection when well polished is very good
For extra durability and depth, you can sand with 800-1000 grit and top coat with a clear. Seems it's possible to put any formulation clearcoat over the Armorseal. It is incredibly resistant to chemical attack.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mod Podge and Micro Gloss BHD Full Range 19 13th November 2007 01:25 PM
Piano gloss tips paulspencer Multi-Way 4 2nd January 2007 08:37 AM
Discussion about gloss paint finish technique Vikash Multi-Way 40 7th July 2006 11:41 AM
Problems with high gloss finish jarros Multi-Way 17 16th October 2005 03:15 PM
Paper Cone Gloss Mjr7531 Multi-Way 5 24th February 2005 04:57 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:57 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2