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Old 22nd May 2008, 04:53 PM   #101
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by TerryO
Hi,
I'm not John, but some of us in the Northwest have had good luck with Glidden Urethane Floor enamel.
Thanks Terry. Is that a water or solvent based urethane?
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Old 22nd May 2008, 05:35 PM   #102
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by sploo


Thanks Terry. Is that a water or solvent based urethane?
The Gidden is one part solvent based. BTW: because it isn't sprayed, the concern about breathing this stuff is just about eliminated, although I wouldn't lock my self in a small closet while applying it.

A normal room with a couple of open windows will do. When you're done painting, just close the door behind you and give it a few hours. Even better is outdoors, but watch out for breeze-bourn dust, direct hot sunlight and insects. Morning hours are the best, once the dew has subsided.

Try it out the whole sequence on some MDF scraps, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the ease and the quality of the results.

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 22nd May 2008, 05:35 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally posted by sploo


Hi John,

I've got a brain like a sieve... I know we've discussed this before, but can't remember the answer... I take it you're still using a solvent based (2K?) urethane on the bare MDF first? I.e. you use that as the primer and the waterbased as the colour coat? And that's followed by a 2K clear?
Hi again sploo,
The solvent based clear urethane (doesn't matter what gloss) is what I've found to be the most effective way to prime the raw MDF. This is 1k, just ordinary clear urethane. Thoroughly sand the MDF with 400 grit paper first, to make it as smooth as possible, then spray on 2 or 3 thin coats.
Let this dry 24 hours or more then lightly sand it smooth (by hand) with fine sandpaper. No more priming is needed - edges are sealed, ready for paint.

I did this on my centre speaker baffle and it worked out perfectly. Here's how it looked after the urethane was sprayed on.
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Old 22nd May 2008, 05:56 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by TerryO


Try it out the whole sequence on some MDF scraps, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the ease and the quality of the results.

Best Regards,
TerryO

Hi Terry,
I have done it like that in the past, using a foam roller and alkyd paint. The results are good, but the amount of work to sand it smooth and to get enough coats on in the first place makes it a chore. It has to dry a long time before you can do much with it. Also, you could see the "layers" of the paint after sanding as each coat was allowed to dry before the next.
It is a good option for someone who has no equipment, no dedicated work space and much patience and time on their hands.
I tried it also with the waterbased urethane, but it didn't work well at all. Because it dries so fast, I wound up sanding most of it off to get it smooth and burned completely through in quite a few places (after more than 10 coats). I considered it a wasted effort.
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Old 22nd May 2008, 06:10 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally posted by sploo

you use that as the primer and the waterbased as the colour coat? And that's followed by a 2K clear?

The amp case in post #86 and my curved three-way baffles were just the waterbased urethane paint, smoothed and polished. No clear coat.
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Old 22nd May 2008, 06:32 PM   #106
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193



Hi Terry,
I have done it like that in the past, using a foam roller and alkyd paint. The results are good, but the amount of work to sand it smooth and to get enough coats on in the first place makes it a chore. It has to dry a long time before you can do much with it. Also, you could see the "layers" of the paint after sanding as each coat was allowed to dry before the next.
It is a good option for someone who has no equipment, no dedicated work space and much patience and time on their hands.
I tried it also with the waterbased urethane, but it didn't work well at all. Because it dries so fast, I wound up sanding most of it off to get it smooth and burned completely through in quite a few places (after more than 10 coats). I considered it a wasted effort.
ML,

Alkyd enamel, at least the old time alkyd house "and" car enamels, never actually completely cures (or at least for a number of years) and never responds well to sanding. The Urethane is a different animal and is IMHO, a superior finish to the older formulas. It does need to cure for awhile, but can be sanded. Many of the "problems" that the older formulas had, have been minimized or eliminated in the newer paints. As for water-based Urethane, I've never had much luck with it either, it's ratio of solids to carrier(water) is such that not very much material is deposited per coat. I wouldn't recommend it as it stands now, perhaps it will be improved to the point that it will surpass oil-based Urethane, but the point hasn't been reached yet.

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 22nd May 2008, 07:21 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally posted by TerryO


ML,

Alkyd enamel, at least the old time alkyd house "and" car enamels, never actually completely cures (or at least for a number of years) and never responds well to sanding. The Urethane is a different animal and is IMHO, a superior finish to the older formulas.

As for water-based Urethane, I've never had much luck with it either, it's ratio of solids to carrier(water) is such that not very much material is deposited per coat. I wouldn't recommend it as it stands now, perhaps it will be improved to the point that it will surpass oil-based Urethane, but the point hasn't been reached yet.


Hi Terry,
I first tried high gloss with alkyd (Tremclad rust paint) several years back on some furniture I did. This I rolled on and sanded smooth and polished. It looked ok after tons of effort.

I then started to spray this, with better results. This paint cures fine, and sands easily after a few days.

I then switched to solvent based urethane paint and sprayed that. This gave great results, but once again the drying time was lengthy. I would need to let it cure for nearly a month for best results.
The obvious other problems with solvent based paint: toxic fumes and highly flammable. Cleanup with dangerous solvents.

I have now been using a waterbased urethane 1k paint from Sherwin Williams, the paint I linked to on the previous page. To say this paint is not on the same level as the 1K oil-based urethane is NOT accurate. It exceeds the oil based on every level of performance. It dries ULTRA fast, low odor, not flammable, extremely tough and durable. One look at the quality of the finish will show that it is not inferior at all.

Invest in a can of this and see the difference for yourself. Once you have used it, it's doubtful you will go back to anything with solvent in it.
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Old 23rd May 2008, 04:46 AM   #108
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John, im sold.

so your using a generic clear urethane as a primer/sealer, then the armorseal. Did you use several thin coats or was it done with heavier passes?

If you have anymore pics of your work I would love to see them!

you know im really kind of glad my finish got f-up(sort of), thanks john.


"your entire empire of destruction comes... crashing down. All because of one little... cherry." love that movie.
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Old 23rd May 2008, 03:22 PM   #109
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193

Hi Terry,
I first tried high gloss with alkyd (Tremclad rust paint) several years back on some furniture I did. This I rolled on and sanded smooth and polished. It looked ok after tons of effort.

I then started to spray this, with better results. This paint cures fine, and sands easily after a few days.

I then switched to solvent based urethane paint and sprayed that. This gave great results, but once again the drying time was lengthy. I would need to let it cure for nearly a month for best results.
The obvious other problems with solvent based paint: toxic fumes and highly flammable. Cleanup with dangerous solvents.

I have now been using a waterbased urethane 1k paint from Sherwin Williams, the paint I linked to on the previous page. To say this paint is not on the same level as the 1K oil-based urethane is NOT accurate. It exceeds the oil based on every level of performance. It dries ULTRA fast, low odor, not flammable, extremely tough and durable. One look at the quality of the finish will show that it is not inferior at all.

Invest in a can of this and see the difference for yourself. Once you have used it, it's doubtful you will go back to anything with solvent in it.

MJL,
Alkyd enamel is, IMHO, little better than pigmented tar. When I was painting cars and motorcycles, back in the day, it was ok for a cheap job. It was applied in 3 fairly heavy coats, one after the other (wet on wet) which required some real care in order to avoid runs, but the prep work was very minimal compared to lacquer. It developed, upon drying, a surface with a self leveling gloss finish. Any subsequent polishing actually slightly decreased the shine.

As for the water-based urethane, you might be on to something there, as I had a conversation with the Sherwin-Williams people a year or so ago and they were pretty excited about their line of water-based Urethane paint. They felt that their special line of auto paint was the real industry leader when it came to custom, after market graphics, ie., showcar paint jobs. They were going to get some in locally so I could try it, but I never hear from them again. Appearently they changed their mind.
From that I can only suppose that any innovations or improvements in ther formulas would filter down to their other lines as applicable.
Since you have used the Sherwin-Williams and had good success with it, I will probably try it out on the basis of your recommendation.

Now I have to select a project worthy of a decent paint job

Best Regards,
TerryO
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Old 23rd May 2008, 04:39 PM   #110
sploo is offline sploo  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
The solvent based clear urethane (doesn't matter what gloss) is what I've found to be the most effective way to prime the raw MDF. This is 1k, just ordinary clear urethane.
Thanks John. I'm sure you've posted this before, but what was the product for this one, another Sherwin-Williams?

My experience with the urethanes has been with a white paint called Isolack (can't remember the manufacturer off the top of my head).

The 1k covered raw MDF well, and hasn't shown signs of the lines after drying. However, I found it never really goes fully hard (a fingernail pressed hard will cause marks).

The 2k seemed to be less viscous and didn't coat so well (and had a tendency to run). However, it dries rock hard overnight, and also looks promising for not showing lines.

I was quite surprised you've found success with a 1k product, but hey, it's safer so that sounds good to me.

I've seen pics of your mains before, but not the center. It's looking great - even with just a coat of the clear!

Quote:
Originally posted by MJL21193
The amp case in post #86 and my curved three-way baffles were just the waterbased urethane paint, smoothed and polished. No clear coat.
Looking good. Are you planning on leaving them without a 2K coat?


Quote:
Originally posted by TerryO
Alkyd enamel is, IMHO, little better than pigmented tar.
*LOL* I don't have any experience with Alkyd paints, but I've certainly used one or two primers and coatings over the years for which I've had similar disdain.
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