A 'how to' for High Gloss Finishing

[OneManDIY]

Thanks guys! Good catch on that brush-less motor requirement, i might have overlooked that.

Yes I plan on having a bunch of DIY projects such as coffee table, audio rack, my lamps projects (previous post in this thread) and future stuff.

I figured that mirror finish might be way too much of an effort to do and a good spray job will go a long way. I have also experimented with pour over epoxy and that technique looks promising.

In my future mirror finish projects: ex. speaker I will have a removable/assemblable front baffle. I will paint the baffle and do the pour over epoxy to get the mirror finish. The rest of the speaker doesn't have to be mirror finish for me

The only trick to that technique is when you do the pour over on the front baffle. Can it be done before routing the holes or after. Both ways present problems but I am sure I will figure out the best process



i digress..... lol


The paint booth will be about 5x6ft and there will be small window in it. I plan on getting a peace of plywood board and mounting the fan/s on it and attaching it to the window with some exhaust hoses coming out. The booth will have 2-3 air-conditioning filters on the bottom of the booth for passive air intake. The booth is enclosed by two walls and a ceiling and I will have to worry about only making one more see trough wall and the entrance

So any info on any spray guns?
What does it consit of? (I am a newb) HLVP? I know there is the gun and some compressor?

 

[evanc]

I use both a turbine HVLP and siphon gun almost daily. I would recommend the turbine driven hvlp for home use. A regular spray gun requires a very large compressor to run properly. There is also less overspray with the turbine gun. I use an accuspray 240k with the pressurized cup. Clean up is super easy and the results are nice. The siphon gun does atomize the paint a little better, but small projects (less then a whole house of millwork) are easy to rub out so any advantage is negated.
I do use both water base and solvent base and can say that solvent based lacquer is by far easier to spray.

homestead finishing has the turbine setup I use Accuspray HVLP Products

I have been liking this solvent based finish lately
ML Campbell

if you are spraying at home and want a water based product I like the pre cat
General Finishes

 

[chrisb]

I use both a turbine HVLP and siphon gun almost daily. I would recommend the turbine driven hvlp for home use. A regular spray gun requires a very large compressor to run properly. There is also less overspray with the turbine gun. I use an accuspray 240k with the pressurized cup. Clean up is super easy and the results are nice. The siphon gun does atomize the paint a little better, but small projects (less then a whole house of millwork) are easy to rub out so any advantage is negated.
I do use both water base and solvent base and can say that solvent based lacquer is by far easier to spray.

homestead finishing has the turbine setup I use Accuspray HVLP Products

I have been liking this solvent based finish lately
ML Campbell

if you are spraying at home and want a water based product I like the pre cat
General Finishes

Evan - if you like the Magnamax, you might want to give the Water White High Performance a try . It's a pre-cat, so pot life is technically limited to 4months - but it atomizes and sprays like a dream with a siphon or gravity feed pot gun, and in a well ventilated booth I can finish & sand between 3 coats in less than a 8 hour day.

I personally like the 15` dull finish for a more restrained finish

 

[evanc]

Chris, thanks for the tip. I'm in the middle of a lot of millwork for a house(about a year of work). mostly cherry. I'll give the ww a try when I spray the rest of the 5 gallon I'm working on now, and I move to a new room. I agree on the sheen. The dull finish looks great.
Evan

 

[OneManDIY]

Thanks for the tips guys!
I like the paint/finish recommendations!

The HLVP is rather pricey tho at $1200 :/
I was thinking something more budget oriented for the future

 

[chrisb]

Thanks for the tips guys!
I like the paint/finish recommendations!

The HLVP is rather pricey tho at $1200 :/
I was thinking something more budget oriented for the future

dirty little secret - I get by quite well with a $40 siphon "pot gun", but the real trick is high volume capacity compressor and dry air - almost nothing will ruin a finish quicker than moisture in the supply


For smaller projects, Mohawk makes a very pre-catalyzed NC lacquer aerosol spray ( M102-0411 for the flat sheen) - no doubt there are other brands as well, but this has been my go-to for small jobs at home rather than the shop, or touch ups - it's surprising how far a $10 (or less in your region) can of this will go.

Pre-Catalyzed Clears - Mohawk Finishing

Keep in mind it's still a VOC propelled NC lacquer, so take the necessary precautions - the active charcoal respirator will cost more than a single can of product, but the MSDS warnings on these types of materials are there for a reason.

 

[TheGimp]

As Rich noted - there is an explosion risk with solvent paints and an unsuitable fan.

I'd personally also be worried about spraying in an enclosed space (even with an exhaust fan) without some form of air feed. Just too much risk of breathing in stuff you really don't want hitting your lungs.

I'd love to set up an indoor spray booth, but wouldn't consider it unless I could get a clean air feed. The problem is that most small compressors I've seen don't have the capacity to run both a gun and an air-fed mask.

Be sure to use a minimum of a canister mask with appropriate canisters if you are shooting anything but water based. I did the paint job on my bike and a car with the gun and used House of Color Urethane Enamel paint. The catalizer is supposed to be really nasty. I shot it outside and used a partial face mask with activated filters double stacked for safety.

A pressurized mask with isolated intake is even better. You don't want the air intake any where the fumes.

If you paint outside, mornings are the best time, and you have to watch for bugs.

 

[OneManDIY]

Be sure to use a minimum of a canister mask with appropriate canisters if you are shooting anything but water based. I did the paint job on my bike and a car with the gun and used House of Color Urethane Enamel paint. The catalizer is supposed to be really nasty. I shot it outside and used a partial face mask with activated filters double stacked for safety.

A pressurized mask with isolated intake is even better. You don't want the air intake any where the fumes.

If you paint outside, mornings are the best time, and you have to watch for bugs.

I have this type of respirator. Any good?

3M Low-Maintenance Half-Mask Organic Vapor, P95 Respirator Assembly, Medium (R6211)

I haven't been able to smell anything trough it.... so far lol.

I was using this sanding lacquer sealer doing some pieces and it took me maybe an hour of painting/sealing and sometimes some of the smell got trough the cracks maybe and I tried adjusting it and the REAL fumes hit me for a second and OMG, if i didnt have a respirator I would have passed out in 5 min lol

 

[richie00boy]

It is probably ok for non-catalysed paints. Your best bet is to find the datasheet for the canisters and see what it says they are designed to protect against and for how long.

 

[chrisb]

While not smelling the products being sprayed is a good indication the filters are doing that part of the job, it's only inhalation you're being protected from. There's also the matter of transpiration of the more volatile compounds via contact with open skin and even through clothing. If you really want full body protection, you'd need something like a Tyvek hoodie suit, nitrile gloves and external breathing air supply.

How many folks worrying about this smoke a pack or more a day, and our ride 2 stroke off road bikes on the weekends? In our shop, the count's at least half of the 15 staff.

 

[OneManDIY]

Thanks guys. I'll stick to lowes or home depot stuff in cans for now until I get an HVLP gun.

It is surpringly annoying to find what the filters protect FTP
. One is for Organic vapors, which is what is used in thinners and some garners and such I think and the other filter is p95 which filters 95% of oil based fumes.

 

[OneManDIY]

Hi guys,
Me... again :/ lol

I finally got myself an el-cehapo HLVP gun from Rockler (pic#1). It has gotten a surprisingly good amount of decent reviews for the price it is selling.

Some of the reviews are saying that they are getting amazing results with little to no over-spray or orange peel!

Now I got myself a can of Rust-Oleum professonal oil based paint (pic #2) and at first I mixed it at about 30% (30% diluted with acetone) but I did not get satisfactory results. I even measured with the viscosity cup to get between the commander drain time. I adjusted the material volume/trigger throughout all the ranges and every time I got pretty big droplets (pic #3), so ended up setting the material spray to as low as I can to get some coverage. I sprayed the back of the speaker at that setting and needless to say there was orange peel, a lot of it (pic #4).


Than I cleaned the gun (which was a mess!!!!) and did a 2:1 mix ratio and got slightly better results. I still had to set the materiel spray at pretty low. I got a bit smaller spray droplets (pic#5), but still not that much greater. I decided to spray the whole speaker with that and it was a bit better over all (pics #6 'top of speaker and #7'side of speaker')

I am about to do some sanding with a #400 or #600 and try to get rid of most of the orange peel and crap that got stuck to it :/ (yes i have a DIYpaint booth but apparently nothing i do work properly)

Oh yeah I sanded the primer coat with a #320 flat!

What do I do guys? I am about to mix at 1:1 ratio next time.
Is it the shitty paint or the shitty gun?!? Frankly I can get better result with a spray can.... so I must be doing something wrong at setting this gun and my mixture or the paint is crap. I wish I could do lacquer but there is no red lacquer anywhere and my base coat is shellac already :/

 

[jewel]

Hand Pressure with Sander

Please be sure to moderate the amount of pressure you place down on the
electric sander. The sander can do the work for you and you may get
closer to a smooth finish much sooner.

 

[Renron]

Acetone evaporates too fast, try 5-10% Naptha or paint thinner

 

[evanc]

My intuition looking at your pics is thin it more. I don't know about the rustolium product. There are certainly differences in how different paints spray and flow. have you thought about auto finish?

 

[OneManDIY]

Please be sure to moderate the amount of pressure you place down on the
electric sander. The sander can do the work for you and you may get
closer to a smooth finish much sooner.

I spent about 1-2 hours wet sanding by hand. I got lets say 80% of the orange peel out and I think I will keep it that way. Next one I will take the random orbital sander and do it that way.... I hope it is easier :/

My intuition looking at your pics is thin it more. I don't know about the rustolium product. There are certainly differences in how different paints spray and flow. have you thought about auto finish?

Yeah I will thin it at about 75% next time (in a day or two). I wish did do an auto finish, I went to PepBoys today and they have Quart cans of Duplicolor lacquer (ready to spray) for abhout $24 each.... kind of pricey. But they have primer, base coat (color choises) and a clear coat. I should have known better and spend the money. I think next time I would go with that combo. Do you have any recommended brand or retailer I can get some good stuff for a decent price?

Acetone evaporates too fast, try 5-10% Naptha or paint thinner

Hmmm.... you think it evaporates that fast that it is giving those results? I am using acetone because that is what is recommended on the directions. I am thinking more acetone and mix at about 75% or 1:1


Do you guys think that Lacquer clear coat will stick to the oil base?

 

[GM]

Orange peel means you're either spraying from too far away and/or at too high a pressure, which is another way of saying that it's congealing from evaporation during its flight through air.

FWIW, historically, mineral spirits or Xylene was the thinner of choice to allow the sufficient 'flow' time required for enamel, so I'm guessing that Acetone is required these days to meet EPA emission standards.

Lacquer is a 'hot' thinner, so not only will it stick to enamel, it will melt it, so a sealer is required; though in cold weather I would add a little to thinned enamel to get some initial 'bite'.

Regardless, with enamel it's best to shoot a thin 'tack' coat, then the color coat once it becomes tacky.

GM

 

[peterlo]

I've been following the posts on this subject.
I also have found difficulty on occasions finding the best combination of temperature, dilution, pressure & technique for a given "paint" type.
It's not correct to assume orange peel affects only the amateur sprayer, I have seen new BMW vehicles with evidence of this although certainly not in recent times.
Before moving to an alternative coating type I would recommend contacting the "tech support" section of the manufacturer. They generally can tell you informally what works best & this info often is not found on the side of the can.
For me dilution with mineral turps to about 20 - 30% has worked.
What I have failed completely to master is keeping dust from settling on wet surfaces despite wetting down floors & walls in the area.

 

[gbuilder]

I'd just like to throw in a reminder that the finishing technique discussed at the start of this thread is for 'low investment' finishing using spray cans and lots of sanding. The advice here has helped me to achieve an amazing finish on my speakers, using the following approach*:
*note the suppliers mentioned below are in the UK.

-seal MDF with wickes (UK) mdf sealer, sand a bit
- a couple of layers of halfords (UK) grey primer spray, then sand down with fine grit to 'glass smooth' surface.
- several coats car spray paint from halfords, sanding with fine grit between every few layers. Don't sand the last layer - and don't worry about slight orange peel - we will be covering all that with clear laquer, when it becomes less visible.
- Lots (7+) coats of halfords clear laquer spray, sanding every few layers. Then sand again to smooth finish (don't worry when it looks all scratched and nasty).
- Then use the finishing compounds&polish described by Shin.
-Enough work and it comes out as good or better than a typical automotive finish.

A couple of things to watch out for:
- Edges are unbelievably vulnerable when sanding; you will almost certainly sand down to the primer so take extra extra care here.
- A fly landed on my top layer of paint before the laquer, messing up the finish. I gambled and carried on, thinking the laquer would cover it up but it didn't!

Good luck and if you're just doing one or two pairs of speakers, I advise that it isn't worth the expense or hassle of getting into proper spray pump systems. People seem all to quick to spend hundreds on equipment for one off projects.

Cheers

 

[Renron]

High quality tools perform better and give better results than "el cheapo" ones. The resale value is high also if they are relatively new. So how much DID you spend on Drivers? and What is your time worth? (rhetorical)
Ron