DIY interconnect - return wire

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Plenty of threads maybe about this however, I am curious with the return ( cold) wire - does it have to be the same matieral, as i feel silver wire is wasted on the cold.

Current set up - my best cable I have

AMP end
Signal :20awg Silver Neotech solid
Return: 24awg Silver x 2, plus 30awg Silver ( ? bit of a waste for return)?
Eichmann rcas

what if the return was solid copper tinned ?

thoughts thank you Sam
 
Thanks Scott and Cbdb
Return wire is form RCA?
This is how its it atm
RCAs are Eichmann copper bullets

Signal - 20awg Neotech silver teflon in teflon tubing - not twisted

Return - 2 x 24awg Neotech silver twisted and lightly wrapped around teflon tubing

Drain - 28 awg silver connected at source end and is wrapped with above return wire

I can never understand what the return purpose is in terms of sound? or if drain is needed
 
That sounds like a very eccentric cable. The return completes the circuit, the clue is in the name, is this what you mean, or do you mean how does it affect the sound? It is part of the circuit and in that sense cannot be separated from the send (signal) wire in terms of importance.
 
If the return wire is in a RCA unbalanced analog interconnect, it should be the shield of a coax cable. The end-to-end resistance of the Shield/Return should be very low, while the end-to-end resistance of the Send matters not. It's connected to a 10k ohm load.

If on the other hand, it's a XLR balanced interconnect, then the High & Low should be identical wires.
 
That sounds like a very eccentric cable. The return completes the circuit, the clue is in the name, is this what you mean, or do you mean how does it affect the sound? It is part of the circuit and in that sense cannot be separated from the send (signal) wire in terms of importance.

Hi Scott
Thank you.
I meant the return is just as important as the signal, though the signal carries the audio while the return is the earthing

I think I mustve tried to make up the 20awg with the 2x24awg + 28awg silver wire on the return

I think I understand now that the return completes the circuit

The 'return' is the datum about which the voltage swings. The voltage swing will always return to the datum, that is, zero potential difference.

In other words, the wires 'should' be the same, or, at least, have negligible impedance difference. The sum of the impedances will be the total impedance.

Thank you Tromperie
I must have about equal to 20awg in the return with 24x2 + 28awg, is best both are connected on the return of the rca

If the return wire is in a RCA unbalanced analog interconnect, it should be the shield of a coax cable. The end-to-end resistance of the Shield/Return should be very low, while the end-to-end resistance of the Send matters not. It's connected to a 10k ohm load.

If on the other hand, it's a XLR balanced interconnect, then the High & Low should be identical wires.

Thanks Speedskater
Its a analog interconnect and has no shield so maybe is best to connect the drain at both ends to make up approx 20awg
 
Thanks Scott and Cbdb
Return wire is form RCA?
This is how its it atm
RCAs are Eichmann copper bullets

Signal - 20awg Neotech silver teflon in teflon tubing - not twisted

Return - 2 x 24awg Neotech silver twisted and lightly wrapped around teflon tubing

Drain - 28 awg silver connected at source end and is wrapped with above return wire

I can never understand what the return purpose is in terms of sound? or if drain is needed

That seems designed to perform badly.
 

Thanks Scott

That seems designed to perform badly.

Thanks Nezbleu
How would i fix it? It sounds fine to me, but that could have been placebo effect. Upon checking the cable the noticed i had 24awg return at one end and 24x2 +28awg at the other end.

Its good silver wire so if i can fix it that would be good

signal 20awg in tubing like cotton and teflon. Use one 24awg wire or get 20awg silver plated copper? for return
 
As everyone has stated, the signal and return carry the same currents, there is no need for asymmetry. A decent coax is all you need. Avoid silver and teflon, the combination exhibits triboelectric effect. You seem to have gone to extraordinary effort to create an interconnect cable that is prone to noise pickup and ignores the actual requirements of a cable.

Having said all that, audio interconnects in the average home environment have such an easy task to perform that you could probably make it even worse and it would still sound pretty good. People have passed audio signals through potatoes and, once adjusted for insertion loss, nobody could hear the difference.
 

TNT

Member
Joined 2003
Paid Member
AC energy transfer works like you would try to rotate a cylinder back and forth by using a rope. You rotate it 180 deg by pulling rope end A and the you pull end B to get 180 deg in the other direction. In your case the cylinder is the speaker and the lines are each one of the conductors in your cable. While you do this, equal tension to both ends shall be applied. If you want to make an equal movement (e.g. a sinus), why would a different rope dimension/material in one direction be an advantage?

//
 

Attachments

  • ac.png
    ac.png
    41 KB · Views: 267
Last edited:
MaccAu said:
I meant the return is just as important as the signal, though the signal carries the audio while the return is the earthing
No. Both carry the audio. In a proper RCA cable the return also acts as a shield, but it won't do that for your cable so you will get noise and RF too.

I think I understand now that the return completes the circuit
That is a good start for someone who want to make his own cables.

nezbleu said:
That seems designed to perform badly.
Virtually all DIY cables are designed to perform badly.

MaccAu said:
How would i fix it?
Add a shield around the signal core. Remove everything else.

yurgs said:
Since Resistance is mostly dependent on the diameter, based on which parameter do you guys chose your interconnect cable then?
Good shield. Moderately low capacitance. Low cost (may conflict with good shield if cost is too low).

TNT said:
If you want to make an equal movement (e.g. a sinus), why would a different rope dimension/material in one direction be an advantage?
Inappropriate mechanical analogies can mislead. Your two ropes roughly model a balanced interconnect. The OP wants an unbalanced interconnect.
 
As everyone has stated, the signal and return carry the same currents, there is no need for asymmetry. A decent coax is all you need. Avoid silver and teflon, the combination exhibits triboelectric effect. You seem to have gone to extraordinary effort to create an interconnect cable that is prone to noise pickup and ignores the actual requirements of a cable.

Having said all that, audio interconnects in the average home environment have such an easy task to perform that you could probably make it even worse and it would still sound pretty good. People have passed audio signals through potatoes and, once adjusted for insertion loss, nobody could hear the difference.

Sorry I didn't answer your question. How would I fix it? I would buy some decent coax (probably microphone cable) and solder some decent RCAs on the ends. But that's just me, if you are having fun and like what you hear, then knock yourself out.

Hello Nezbleu,
Thank you for explaining and mentioning about triboelectric effect, will google it. I just want to make a nice diy cable. I have a source of very nice microphone cable and despite the cheap price, it sounds very nice

Since Resistance is mostly dependent on the diameter, based on which parameter do you guys chose your interconnect cable then?
lowest Capacitance?
how would this work?
Cordial Produktkatalog / Cordial Products / Bulk cables::Microphone::0,22 mm²::CMK 222
roughly AWG 24 and 55pf cap, made locally..( for me here)

would you use the same inside an Amplifier, lets say from the volume pot to the pre and so on?

cheers
J

Thank you J for the diagram and help. That is a nice cable, similar to the microphone cable i can get here.

AC energy transfer works like you would try to rotate a cylinder back and forth by using a rope. You rotate it 180 deg by pulling rope end A and the you pull end B to get 180 deg in the other direction. In your case the cylinder is the speaker and the lines are each one of the conductors in your cable. While you do this, equal tension to both ends shall be applied. If you want to make an equal movement (e.g. a sinus), why would a different rope dimension/material in one direction be an advantage?

//

No. Both carry the audio. In a proper RCA cable the return also acts as a shield, but it won't do that for your cable so you will get noise and RF too.


That is a good start for someone who want to make his own cables.


Virtually all DIY cables are designed to perform badly.


Add a shield around the signal core. Remove everything else.


Good shield. Moderately low capacitance. Low cost (may conflict with good shield if cost is too low).


Inappropriate mechanical analogies can mislead. Your two ropes roughly model a balanced interconnect. The OP wants an unbalanced interconnect.

Thank you TNT,
I once got some really think silver plated copper sheilding from the Ukraine to make my turntable interconnect, which actually seems good.

Unbalanced is just return and signal, balanced is source end drain wire or sheild?
 
MaccAu said:
Unbalanced is just return and signal, balanced is source end drain wire or sheild?
Unbalanced is signal and return. The return acts as shield, so has two roles.

Balanced is signal+ and signal-, with both at the same impedance. It may or may not be shielded.

People often confuse the two, or try to combine them. Fortunately, domestic audio is an undemanding application of wires so quite serious mistakes can still work OK; sadly this encourages others to make mistakes too.

You need to be clear: there is no valid electrical reason to make your own audio cable. Anything you make will be electrically inferior to a cable made in a factory. All you need to do is buy some cable, buy some connectors and attach them. DIY cable-making simply raises a flag to tell others that you don't understand electronics; do you really want to do this?
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.