Floor sound *Transmission* Deadening?? - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Construction Tips

Construction Tips Construction techniques and tips

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd July 2015, 01:19 PM   #1
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
Default Floor sound *Transmission* Deadening??

Have a LR floor, bare now, plywood over wood joists, have access to both sides (above and below). While it will get carpet of some sort as a top layer, I have the opportunity to do something now to attenuate foot fall noise, and other higher frequency noise that might be transmitted through the floor to the space below.

The key thing is that whatever is used can't be "mega bucks". It needs to be effective and not to crazy difficult to apply.

My immediate thought is to acquire some ~1/8" relatively soft rubber sheet and apply to the floor with 1/4" or 3/8" plywood over, held in place by screws that are set recessed slightly in predrilled holes (spaced in a pattern - just to keep the sheets from ever shifting), so the plywood "floats" on the rubber.

The advantage to this idea is that it can be removed without much effort later - need be. Or if it proves not effective enough.

The other method I've seen mentioned commercially is two layers of plywood that are bonded together by an elastomer. But I don't know where to start with getting a suitable elastomer - the commercial products are imo, way overpriced.

There are all sorts of 5 gal pails of elastomeric roof coatings out there, but which one??

Things like "Liquid Nails" do not stay compliant past a short period of time, and will not be happy under compression for this application. Something that rolls or sprays on might be good - but it needs to be thick enough to be effective.

A layer of "ice guard" material (for roofing) would no doubt be super, but I don't know if it outgasses, or has a petroleum component.

I *CAN* apply or spay things below the floor between and on the joists. Or do both above and below.

So, the question is what are proven materials and techniques that might be applicable here?
The goal is absolute maximum dB attenuation from LF to HF of the top floor surface through the ceiling above the room below.
Consideration can be given to getting more attenuation from the ceiling system that is below the LR floor. But the main focus needs
to be on the floor surface first - I can attack the underside after the floor above is finished.

Ask questions, as needed!
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]

Last edited by bear; 2nd July 2015 at 01:34 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 02:06 PM   #2
Enzo is offline Enzo  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lansing, Michigan
You know, I bet we don't go to Home Depot and ask about speakers, but why not go to a flooring company/retailer or even the aforementioned Home Depot (Lowes, Menards, whatever) and ask for advice?

I could probably think up some materials and ways to apply them, but this is not the first time your need has come up, at least to the flooring industry.

And if you want to get REAL specific, the recording industry has been fighting this fight for decades. Find some recording forums to ask in. A quick google found this for me:
The Acoustics Forum Forum

Note the very first sticky topic in that forum.

Also:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 02:44 PM   #3
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
Yeah... I'll look at the two forums...

The people at the big box stores are essentially ignorant.
This is not a simple question, one that they will not really know anything about.

I'm hoping someone here has specific experience with specific techniques and materials.

I have the Alton Everest book, fwiw.

_-_-bear
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 02:57 PM   #4
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
The Acoustics Forum Forum topic has good info, but I can't do a high mass floating floor.



I'll look into the gearslutz thread for specific ideas that might apply...
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 03:09 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Oakmont PA
You put 2" or more of vermiculite in between the floor joists. Cheap and more effective that just about anything else. Keeps railroad noise out of recording studios. Costs about $1 per square foot.

Last edited by simon7000; 2nd July 2015 at 03:11 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 03:29 PM   #6
koja is offline koja  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Windsor
those techniques are well known and rated on STC scale.
good soundproofing which includes low frequencies and structure-borne sound is not simple and it costs big $$s. decoupling two sides of the wall/ceiling by giving them separate studs/joists, using resilient channels for mounting thicker drywall (mass loading springs) etc.etc... it's all out on the net. in Japan they even support complete floor frames with hydraulic mounts (like engines are supported in the cars). just using an elastomeric sheet like duracoustic or similar has a limited effect. also look up mass loaded vynil barrier and make sure you seal any gaps! good luck.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 03:57 PM   #7
Did it Himself
diyAudio Member
 
richie00boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Gloucestershire, England, UK
If it's just footfall and high frequency noise, make sure the floorboards are screwed securely to the joists. And make sure the joists are even and secure. Line the gaps between joists with rockwool or similar insulation. Works well for heat as well as noise.

If it's bass transmission you want to reduce then that's a lot more work.
__________________
www.readresearch.co.uk my website for UK diy audio people - designs, PCBs, modules and more.
  Reply With Quote
Old 2nd July 2015, 08:35 PM   #8
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
footfall is impulse + bass.

rockwool will have very limited benefit, unfortunately.

I'm intrigued by the vermiculite solution... my elastomer idea was to damp the impulse and reduce the amplitude that is transmitted.

There is no need to float the floor, etc, since this space is a basement, and the goal is merely to limit the sounds *above* from coming down, attenuation UP is the bonus.

_-_-
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM   #9
expert in tautology
diyAudio Member
 
bear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: New York State USA
no one else?
__________________
_-_-bear
http://www.bearlabs.com -- Btw, I don't actually know anything, FYI -- [...2SJ74 Toshiba bogus asian parts - beware! ]
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 08:33 PM   #10
jcx is offline jcx  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ..
the Green Glue site had some good looking info

carpet pad and/or floating flooring would help - carpet pad can improve/reduce reverberant noise in the upper room too

spring suspended, resilient channel or independently framed ceiling below is a way to avoid the mechanical short circuit of the solid wood path of same joist supporting floor above and ceiling below

https://www.google.com/#q=soundproofing+resilient

some sound proof walls use completely separate studs for each face that don't touch the opposite wallboard


I believe I've seen warnings that just treating directly above may not help as much as expected - the solid wood path of joists conducts foot strike noise from quite a ways, rooms away

that's why the suspended, mechanically isolated walls and ceiling "room within a room" construction is recommended enclosing the quiet/isolated space

Last edited by jcx; Yesterday at 08:43 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Barium Sound Deadening - How Effective Is It? villeneuve Multi-Way 9 10th May 2014 02:55 PM
Worst Sound Deadening Ever Patrick Bateman Subwoofers 4 10th May 2011 09:15 AM
sound deadening my car. some advice please therich Car Audio 7 29th March 2009 08:58 AM
Sound deadening coating ben62670 Multi-Way 6 4th June 2007 09:12 AM
Sound deadening mat installation Q's curtis73 Car Audio 2 25th October 2004 05:26 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:46 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2015 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2015 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2