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Enclosure building specific techniques for general cabinetmaker?
Enclosure building specific techniques for general cabinetmaker?
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Old 26th March 2014, 02:40 AM   #11
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Is these to be bespoke pieces of artisanal quality cabinetry, or "road-crew proof" Pro PA gear?

Either way you can likely find more than enough advice here
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Old 26th March 2014, 04:35 AM   #12
Barrettn is offline Barrettn  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Is these to be bespoke pieces of artisanal quality cabinetry, or "road-crew proof" Pro PA gear?

Either way you can likely find more than enough advice here
These speakers will be in our living room, so there is a need for a high WAF quotient ("Wife Approval Factor").

That being said, I'm leaning towards a simple flat black wood veneer finish, hoping that "less is more".
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Old 26th March 2014, 01:13 PM   #13
BillEpstein is offline BillEpstein  United States
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I have a vast experience of creating cabinets with every known technique that then become suitable for burning. This is some of what I've learned:

Your friend will know how to cut and assemble a box but have him make the top and bottom panels inside the front sides and back. Using the same saw setting, cut extra panels for interior braces, quantity as needed. Cut or rout those so they allow air to pass freely and use them to square the construction during glue-up as well as stiffening the boxes.

Even though the joints look tight after glue-up, fill them with Bondo or Plastic Wood or Dunham's Rock Hard anyway, sanded smooth. Even backed veneer will telegraph any imperfections.

Go to Tape-Ease.com and buy 4x8 sheets of NBL (no black line) vener. Apply with contact adhesive (not water-based, it's ****); there's tons of advice on their site and legions of others on application. Use dowels (because they're round) to keep the veneer away from the panels while aligning. Yellow glue and an iron is problematic, use Contact.
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File Type: jpg UniversityAltec build 005.jpg (77.9 KB, 232 views)
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Old 26th March 2014, 05:16 PM   #14
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Enclosure building specific techniques for general cabinetmaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillEpstein View Post
...cut extra panels for interior braces, quantity as needed. Cut or rout those so they allow air to pass freely and use them to square the construction during glue-up as well as stiffening the boxes.
Braces are best if they divide a panel such that the aspect of the sub-panel is greater than the original panel. ie the "shelf" brace in Bill's box would be better if they were oriented vertically.

dave
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Old 27th March 2014, 06:23 PM   #15
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Bill - I've built more & veneered more than a few pairs of speaker enclosures myself (some of which have been burned as well) and would beg to differ with your position on contact vs iron-on for the veneer itself. The latter allows far more latitude for precise grain alignment/ matching around an enclosure's perimeters. Contact is instant and completely unforgiving



With thin paper backed veneers without vapor barriers, there can also be an issue with solvent based finishing products penetrating through and causing the solvent based contact to release.


edit: I should qualify that I tend to use the 10mil paper backed only, as I'll often want to fold the veneer around a radiused or beveled edge as well as trim out vent and shallow cut-outs for flush mounted drivers and terminal cups. Much easier to accomplish with the thinner product, but more time does need to be taken in surface prep to avoid telegraphing joints, etc.

And my position's probably no surprise, but the location and direction of bracing can make quite a difference.
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Last edited by chrisb; 27th March 2014 at 06:30 PM. Reason: qualification
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Old 27th March 2014, 06:32 PM   #16
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Enclosure building specific techniques for general cabinetmaker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
I've built more & veneered more than a few pairs of speaker enclosures myself
Most of these pictured in post #1.

dave
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Old 28th March 2014, 01:52 PM   #17
BillEpstein is offline BillEpstein  United States
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A close friend, and the finest cabinet maker I know, swears by iron and PVA along with yourself and probably legions of builders. I tried it a few times and it just didn't work for me. Even with thick NBL veneer I got glue ridges telegraphed, bubbles, etc.

There may be aural advantages to the orientation of baffles but I only have so much time for the hobby so strengthening, breaking up harmonics and squaring the assembly all at once trumps that.

The king of glues for me is Powdered Plasticised Resin, PPR, mandatory with unbacked veneer, but it's tedious and requires fortunes in clamps. Toxic as hell too! Next would be hide glue but the melting, stirring, scraping, etc. is also tedious and time-consuming. No clamps, though. Always one or the other when I book match or mix species.

I don't find matching a problem with Contact Adhesive with a little planning and NBL rounds a 1/2" radius with no problem; seat the front and then roll the box over.

With NBL there's no chance of finishing solvents ruining the Contact Adhesive bond, especially as I almost always prime with amber or white de-waxed shellac.

You get comfortable with a product and a process that works and there's plenty of room for us to differ in that. Keep building!
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File Type: jpg After The Roll_1.JPG (116.6 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg Sanded to 320_1.JPG (125.7 KB, 97 views)
File Type: jpg Busy Shop 013_1.jpg (128.3 KB, 102 views)
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Old 28th March 2014, 05:48 PM   #18
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Nice work Bill - that is much thinner product than the woodbacked 2-ply widely distributed locally hereabouts.

Couldn't agree more with your closing sentence.

peace out dude
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Old 14th April 2014, 02:51 PM   #19
paul burchell is offline paul burchell  Canada
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Hi guys, Chris i know you have mentioned in a previous post of your use of the rod type magnets as opposed to the thinner round type. Unfortunately LV only gives a strength rating to thinner type,going there and trying to compare hands-on was inconclusive, trying to seperate tiny magnets to compare strength didn’t work that well.
The staff member at LV seem to think the larger the surface area the stronger it would be. Have you ever done any comparative tests regarding this.
Our veneering process is different then what most are typically doing, our thicker 1/16"- 3/32" veneers are glued to the sub-strait before carcass assembly and the magnets will be installed,drilled in from the back leaving approx 3/32"-1/8" of material between the 2 magnets. I can,t remember the rod magnet you suggested but i would guess the 1/4" x 1/2" long to be the most effective one, my other choice would be the 1/2" diameter flat at 9lb strength or even the 3/4" dia flat at 22lb strength
A full mock-up or 2 or 3 may not be out of the question to determine the right balance between strength and easy removal.
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Old 14th April 2014, 03:40 PM   #20
chrisb is offline chrisb
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Paul - my veneering is post assembly and with the much thinner paper backed product, I find that 1/4 x 1/4" magnet in both the cabinet face and grille frame are generally quite strong enough for the 1/4" MDF frames I fabricate. I've never weighed any of them, but a grille frame for most smaller enclosures should be no more than a few ounces, so the higher strength units seems overkill to me.

A recent exception is an enclosure recently completed for mid 70s vintage Tannoy 12" Dual Monitors. The chosen design had a very narrow front baffle and the owner wanted round grilles, so there wasn't enough margin to fit the magnets outside the drive frame. In this case I used 3/8" MDF for the frame rings and 1/4 x 1/2" magnets that protruded far enough to attach to the #10 flat hex head sheet metal screws with which the drivers were mounted to the enclosures. It took a couple of thin nylon washers to raise the head of the screws to reach contact point with the magnets, but it worked out well enough in the end.

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Last edited by chrisb; 14th April 2014 at 03:44 PM.
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