Hello,
First of all apologies if this should be in another section but I can't see any cable section and I couldn't find any thread about 3 core xlr cables.
I'm in the process of building my first balanced XLR cable. For this project I will be using 3 core 'pure' silver (plated) cable.
The cable Yarbo SP-1203PS is listed on manufacture's website (GERMANY YARBO INTERNATIONAL (HK) LIMITER.) as interconnect cable but also in digital balanced section as Yarbo SP-D-3 and this is the cable that I plan to use.
I have two questions:
1. What is the best way of connection wires to the Neutrik NC3 plugs? For the 2 core cable I would use shield as a third cable. What should I do with the shield in this cable?
2. Is it possible that there might be any difference in the digital and interconnect version of the cable? Photos are identical.
Thanks for your help
First of all apologies if this should be in another section but I can't see any cable section and I couldn't find any thread about 3 core xlr cables.
I'm in the process of building my first balanced XLR cable. For this project I will be using 3 core 'pure' silver (plated) cable.
The cable Yarbo SP-1203PS is listed on manufacture's website (GERMANY YARBO INTERNATIONAL (HK) LIMITER.) as interconnect cable but also in digital balanced section as Yarbo SP-D-3 and this is the cable that I plan to use.
I have two questions:
1. What is the best way of connection wires to the Neutrik NC3 plugs? For the 2 core cable I would use shield as a third cable. What should I do with the shield in this cable?
2. Is it possible that there might be any difference in the digital and interconnect version of the cable? Photos are identical.
Thanks for your help
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Why buy 3-core cable for a 2-core requirement? Floating the 3rd core will probably unbalance the other two. Connecting the 3rd core to ground will add capacitance.
I understand silver and teflon is a good combination for maximising triboelectricity (and thus handling noise and other cable microphony).
Hopefully the digital version of the cable will have an appropriate well-defined RF characteristic impedance (provided it is wired correctly). Hopefully the interconnect version will have lowish capacitance. These two requirements might not be mutually exclusive.
I understand silver and teflon is a good combination for maximising triboelectricity (and thus handling noise and other cable microphony).
Hopefully the digital version of the cable will have an appropriate well-defined RF characteristic impedance (provided it is wired correctly). Hopefully the interconnect version will have lowish capacitance. These two requirements might not be mutually exclusive.
Make that: pin 1 - Shield/Chassis. Pin 1 is NOT circuit ground.
Two core cable will make a much better balanced interconnect!
Read the papers about Shield Current Induced Noise (SCIN) at the Jim Brown site.
Audio Systems Group, Inc. Publications
Silver plated cable is not the same as silver. You need to have a reliable connection to the shield. In a balanced XLR cable it should be connected to pin 1 at both ends. Use only two of the inner conductors for the signal as they should all be twisted together.
Now if you want to play connect the shield to the shell using the fourth tie point. Then you can use the inner conductors for the three pins.
Now if you want to play connect the shield to the shell using the fourth tie point. Then you can use the inner conductors for the three pins.
Thank you all for your help. I'm still not convinced what my best option is. I must admit that I have never built a balanced cable before and was probably mislead when buying this cable by photos on the internet of XLR balanced cables using 3 braided wires. I thought this is the best way for balanced cable.
I checked the cable that I have and it looks like it has some copper inside but most of it is silver. All three wires are twisted and it says on the cable "interconnect cable".
I have only basic knowledge about xlr balanced interconnects but does these two options make any sense compared to the standard 2 core balanced cable:
1) use 2 cores + shield for pin 1 (leaving third core unused)
2) use all three cores and connect the shield on one end to the plug shell (I believe there is fourth tie point in the female plug) just like power cords.
What are downsides of those options compared to the standard XLR cable with 2 wires and a shield as a third wire.
Thanks again guys
I checked the cable that I have and it looks like it has some copper inside but most of it is silver. All three wires are twisted and it says on the cable "interconnect cable".
I have only basic knowledge about xlr balanced interconnects but does these two options make any sense compared to the standard 2 core balanced cable:
1) use 2 cores + shield for pin 1 (leaving third core unused)
2) use all three cores and connect the shield on one end to the plug shell (I believe there is fourth tie point in the female plug) just like power cords.
What are downsides of those options compared to the standard XLR cable with 2 wires and a shield as a third wire.
Thanks again guys
Wire this way and you shouldn't have any problems.
Clear - pin 1 (ground)
Red - pin 2 (hot)
Blue - pin 3 (cold)
Screen - shield
You might find that pin 1 is connected to shield internally in the equipment.
If you want to try using 2 core screened cable, just leave out pin 1 connections altogether.
Clear - pin 1 (ground)
Red - pin 2 (hot)
Blue - pin 3 (cold)
Screen - shield
You might find that pin 1 is connected to shield internally in the equipment.
If you want to try using 2 core screened cable, just leave out pin 1 connections altogether.
I think your best option is to get the proper cable and use this for something else. Here is one: Thermax Cable - Shielded/Twisted Pair -18AWG - Silver Coated
I have no experience with this cable however.
I have no experience with this cable however.
The whole point of a balanced connection is to have the two signal wires as close and symmetrical as possible. That way, any outside junk will be induced on both phases equally and in the balanced receiver will be cancelled.
The screen or shield is there to interconnect the chassis of the equipment, and should be connected to pin 1. Hopefully, at the equipment, pin 1 is connected to the chassis. That is the right way to do it.
So, when selecting a cable, pay attention that the mechanical construction is such that it is symmetrical from the point of view of the two signal wires.
Don't worry about silver or silver plate, that's at best a secondary issue. Get the basics right first.
Jan
The screen or shield is there to interconnect the chassis of the equipment, and should be connected to pin 1. Hopefully, at the equipment, pin 1 is connected to the chassis. That is the right way to do it.
So, when selecting a cable, pay attention that the mechanical construction is such that it is symmetrical from the point of view of the two signal wires.
Don't worry about silver or silver plate, that's at best a secondary issue. Get the basics right first.
Jan
Quoting from SCIN Part 2 http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/SCIN-2.pdf:
"So, to summarize, the “right” way to terminate balanced cable, whether for audio or data, is to maintain the twisting as carefully as possible right to the point where it enters equipment (ideally there should be “zero length” of untwisted cable). If the shield is to be terminated, there should be either a concentric connection or the shortest possible pigtail, and it should go straight to the shielding enclosure of the equipment.[...]"
The article also mention something about connecting the shield only at sending end only if the cable is short.
Well... I actually used 3 wires in my balanced cable and connected the shield on one end only (CDP/DAC - sending end) to the ground pin (fourth pin). Didn't have chance to listen to it properly but you know what...? it didn't blew my gear out. It works. I will compare the sound later today against my cheapo RCA cable and will report back. Let's just assume the cable will pickup extra noise. What should I hear? noise? Will it be audible?
"So, to summarize, the “right” way to terminate balanced cable, whether for audio or data, is to maintain the twisting as carefully as possible right to the point where it enters equipment (ideally there should be “zero length” of untwisted cable). If the shield is to be terminated, there should be either a concentric connection or the shortest possible pigtail, and it should go straight to the shielding enclosure of the equipment.[...]"
The article also mention something about connecting the shield only at sending end only if the cable is short.
Well... I actually used 3 wires in my balanced cable and connected the shield on one end only (CDP/DAC - sending end) to the ground pin (fourth pin). Didn't have chance to listen to it properly but you know what...? it didn't blew my gear out. It works. I will compare the sound later today against my cheapo RCA cable and will report back. Let's just assume the cable will pickup extra noise. What should I hear? noise? Will it be audible?
I wish we had a "Like" button! Yes, of course Jan. Also, to elaborate a little, "balanced" also means that the hot and cold conductors have equal impedance to ground, which includes resistance, capacitance and inductance! This means that they have to have the same kind of insulation, the same kind of wire, and a symmetrical construction (as in twisted pair).
I like Canare Star Quad myself, but it probably shouldn't be used for really really long connections. http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocuments/Cat11_p35.pdf
Nope, its a balanced signal, thus 2 wires, in close twisted proximity, each wire provides the return path for the other wire, anything else is not balanced. The screen is there to screen the cables from interference.
Have a look for Henry Otts AES presentation on this, as well as others and follow the recommendation's ie two wires and a screen, anything other than two wires is not balanced.
Have a look for Henry Otts AES presentation on this, as well as others and follow the recommendation's ie two wires and a screen, anything other than two wires is not balanced.
As far as I know, CAT5 cable does not have a shield. If you used one wire of each pair of twisted pair in that cable as the hot, and the other wire for cold, then I think you'd probably have equal impedance to ground for the hot and the cold conductors, but you'd still have no shield.
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