Hi,
I have an idea that I could make an enclosure for my amplifier out of thin wood, with a layer of carbon around it.
The motivations for it are the following: I would like to build my own case, but with a nice finish. I really like aluminium cases, but I don't have any tools to work with metal, let alone to powder coat or anodize it. Having it done is rather expensive.
A wood case is a possibility, but for the wood to be sonically neutral it needs to be pretty clunky, it would still have to be ventilated for heat dissipation, and finishing wood is pretty arduous, it will probably still look like it's made of wood and require screws/bolts visible from the outside, which I'm not sure I like.
So the crazy idea is to build the case out of thin wood (like 2-3mm) on a simple skeleton not bothering much with rigidity, perhaps only using wood glue. Then the second step would be to go through the whole epoxy base coat -> carbon fiber -> multiple epoxy coats process.
I have a feeling it would be not much more work than varnishing/polyutheraning wood. And if the carbon layer would come out ugly (due to air being trapped and such) I could simply add a coat of spraypaint in between the epoxy layers, and have the end result look like a shiny hard plastic.
What do you guys think of this idea? I couldn't find any directly similar projects on the internet, I've watched a lot of youtube videos of people building carbon fiber things also over wood skeletons, but never a small box.
My dad thinks the idea is pretty crazy, and assumed it would be too expensive, but I've checked and although carbon is pretty expensive, the whole project could be around 40 euro (since it's just a small box and hopefully only need one layer of carbon), which is more expensive than cheap wood, but definitely cheaper than any aluminium finishing I might attempt. And I wouldn't need to buy any additional power tools.
I have an idea that I could make an enclosure for my amplifier out of thin wood, with a layer of carbon around it.
The motivations for it are the following: I would like to build my own case, but with a nice finish. I really like aluminium cases, but I don't have any tools to work with metal, let alone to powder coat or anodize it. Having it done is rather expensive.
A wood case is a possibility, but for the wood to be sonically neutral it needs to be pretty clunky, it would still have to be ventilated for heat dissipation, and finishing wood is pretty arduous, it will probably still look like it's made of wood and require screws/bolts visible from the outside, which I'm not sure I like.
So the crazy idea is to build the case out of thin wood (like 2-3mm) on a simple skeleton not bothering much with rigidity, perhaps only using wood glue. Then the second step would be to go through the whole epoxy base coat -> carbon fiber -> multiple epoxy coats process.
I have a feeling it would be not much more work than varnishing/polyutheraning wood. And if the carbon layer would come out ugly (due to air being trapped and such) I could simply add a coat of spraypaint in between the epoxy layers, and have the end result look like a shiny hard plastic.
What do you guys think of this idea? I couldn't find any directly similar projects on the internet, I've watched a lot of youtube videos of people building carbon fiber things also over wood skeletons, but never a small box.
My dad thinks the idea is pretty crazy, and assumed it would be too expensive, but I've checked and although carbon is pretty expensive, the whole project could be around 40 euro (since it's just a small box and hopefully only need one layer of carbon), which is more expensive than cheap wood, but definitely cheaper than any aluminium finishing I might attempt. And I wouldn't need to buy any additional power tools.
If you haven't got the tools to work with thin metal, these are the same tools you will need to work with thin wood and carbon. So how are you going to build it?
Surely a carbon covered wood enclosure is going to need ventilation exactly the same as a solid wood enclosure would?
Without visible screws how is the box going to be opened to put the electronics inside?
You can't put spray paint inbetween epoxy, only on top of. I think you will find it difficult with a thin wood skeleton to get a nice flat result.
You are correct, it won't be that expensive. Have you considered painting an aluminium box? I think the cost will be about the same.
There will be no screening without a metal enclosure.
Can you please explain this:
Whitout a good mold, carbon fiber needs a lot of machining and that's gonna be expensive.
Thanks for your replies!
Woodglue, a handsaw and some sanding paper I guess.
Woodglue, a handsaw and some sanding paper I guess.
Yes, perhaps that was superfluous.
I was thinking a removeable top with magnets (I have some strong ones on hand).
Ah that's good to know, I think I read somewhere that for a black finish you could layer epoxy, sand it up, spray it black, perhaps in a few layers, sand it up lightly again and then continue with some more epoxy layers.
I was thinking that if I used wood I could get some nice rounded corners, or at least smoother than connected plates of aluminium. Also I've painted aluminium before and it was very prone to scratch, but perhaps I wasn't thorough enough then with the sanding/layering.
What do you mean with screening?
That sounds cool too. Would one layer of carbon fiber alone be rigid enough for a nice box? Depends on the thickness of the fiber I guess.
Well I meant that if I would make it entirely out of wood, I'd need a pretty thick wood, or at least brace it well. Which would make the enclosure a bit bigger. Perhaps not really an issue, just a thing I was thinking about.
What kind of machining to you mean for the carbon? The thin-wood box would be like a mold that would stay there. Perhaps with a layer of carbon on the inside as well. Do you think that wouldn't go right?
As someone who has worked with both cf and fiberglass i'd say dont do it. Unless you have a proprer mold and a vacuum bagging set up you will not get good results. It will require a ton of sanding and buffing to get a nice finish. CF and epoxy is very expensive so your not going to save anything over having a metal box powder coated.A good quality hand drill and some quality bits will get good results with an aluminum box.If you like the CF look and dont want to get a metal box powder coated u could always look at the vinyle car wrap that has the look of CF or even kevlar etc.
One layer is not enough unless you have very thick carbon cloth. Laminating thick cloth is difficult and the material is quite expensive. You could use carbon as top layer and then a couple of layers of glass fibre (which is much cheaper material) to give rigidity.
Without a mold doing this kind of box is difficult. Easiest way would be the method I described but only when you really know what you're doing. I did a DJ case using this method about 20 years ago. The result was satisfactory.
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Not exactly true, if he uses a heavy roving, he could roll a smooth layer over the wooden box.
Only difficulty would be the corners, they'd have to be round, and he'd have to shave the endings to get a neat overlay.
But why carbon ? Polyurethane spray painting $1/sqft glass fiber roving looks just as good.
Only difficulty would be the corners, they'd have to be round, and he'd have to shave the endings to get a neat overlay.
But why carbon ? Polyurethane spray painting $1/sqft glass fiber roving looks just as good.
Reconsider the aluminium box. Those basic tools you have will be fine for aluminium. If you can make it in wood you can make it in aluminium, especially if that wood was covered in carbon fibre (very hard on tools). Although if you do want big rounded corners it's probably easier to use wood. But I think the limited tools you have it may end up a difficult and uneven result.
Screening is electrical shielding which prevents or reduces the amount of interference getting inside your box.
The paint probably scraped off your aluminium in previous experience because you either did not use primer, or used normal basic primer as opposed to etching primer.
Screening is electrical shielding which prevents or reduces the amount of interference getting inside your box.
The paint probably scraped off your aluminium in previous experience because you either did not use primer, or used normal basic primer as opposed to etching primer.
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I was thinking the carbon+epoxy would be more sonically neutral than glass fiber+polyurethane. Though I have not measured that, just an idea. Do you think the glass fiber would be just as good?
I was referring to method in my earlier post; making a mold from plastic sheets and laminating the case into the mold. Holes cannot be avoided if the cloth is heavy.
Laying either Carbon or Glass onto wood needs as much prep of the wood before hand as a 'conventional' finish.
The 'cloth' can 'blow' (lift) off the substrate causing a bump. If your really skilled and the 'blow' is in Glass, you can 'remove' the section, graft in a patch and re-finish.
Same scenario in Carbon is a nightmare..... peel the cloth off, re-finish the substrate - you might suffer tear-out with wood.
You can hand laminate 'round' hard edge 90 degree corner BUT not on thin substrates ie: 3mm panel.
Epoxy is also the devils own to make shiny unless it's been formed in a mold - because it comes out shiny, cavat extempore - how well is the mold finished?
If you spray Cellulose / solvent based Acrylic over epoxy they will react unless the epoxy has been 'baked' - using a domestic oven can work well if it's a good one, but will your family like the taste of 'Duck in an Orange jeux with a hint of epoxy'?
Epoxy is nasty stuff, for some people just sniffing the fumes can lead to sensitivity to all manner of 'every day' chemicals.
You can use other 'bonding' agents: Thinned down PVA, Polyester resin, Varnishes..... all have their 'pain in the rear' attributes re working.
By the time you've bought epoxy (enough to do the job then about the same amount again for waste, plus extra because you're learning) AND then enough Carbon to make the 'case' mechanically substantial, your almost at the same cost as buying pre-cut metal / tools / diying OR a ready made article.
Will it sound better than wood or metal alone - Very debatable unless constructed like an F1 chassis or milled from a 'solid' block.
I make surfboards, motor bike / car panels, repair 'Composite' boats and build model race planes, the whole process is a total pain in the rear / a challenge, but that's one of the things that I like about it after 15yrs.
I could make a composite case for the ACA I'm working on, if I had'nt been given a suitable one, i would have bought pre-cut metal and diy'd from there.
The 'cloth' can 'blow' (lift) off the substrate causing a bump. If your really skilled and the 'blow' is in Glass, you can 'remove' the section, graft in a patch and re-finish.
Same scenario in Carbon is a nightmare..... peel the cloth off, re-finish the substrate - you might suffer tear-out with wood.
You can hand laminate 'round' hard edge 90 degree corner BUT not on thin substrates ie: 3mm panel.
Epoxy is also the devils own to make shiny unless it's been formed in a mold - because it comes out shiny, cavat extempore - how well is the mold finished?
If you spray Cellulose / solvent based Acrylic over epoxy they will react unless the epoxy has been 'baked' - using a domestic oven can work well if it's a good one, but will your family like the taste of 'Duck in an Orange jeux with a hint of epoxy'?
Epoxy is nasty stuff, for some people just sniffing the fumes can lead to sensitivity to all manner of 'every day' chemicals.
You can use other 'bonding' agents: Thinned down PVA, Polyester resin, Varnishes..... all have their 'pain in the rear' attributes re working.
By the time you've bought epoxy (enough to do the job then about the same amount again for waste, plus extra because you're learning) AND then enough Carbon to make the 'case' mechanically substantial, your almost at the same cost as buying pre-cut metal / tools / diying OR a ready made article.
Will it sound better than wood or metal alone - Very debatable unless constructed like an F1 chassis or milled from a 'solid' block.
I make surfboards, motor bike / car panels, repair 'Composite' boats and build model race planes, the whole process is a total pain in the rear / a challenge, but that's one of the things that I like about it after 15yrs.
I could make a composite case for the ACA I'm working on, if I had'nt been given a suitable one, i would have bought pre-cut metal and diy'd from there.
You must also have a disliking for printed circuit board, aka glass fiber reinforced epoxy ?
If you wish stiffness/rigidity, make it sandwich.
Or go nuts, and glue a layer of hawaphon on the inside, Korff AG - Hawaphon
(is what I have in the floor&ceiling of my listening room, 1935 former orphanage with 12'' double brick walls and wooden floors)
Sort of, it's not about the carbon though, it's more about the outside being a hard polishable plastic. And using carbon fiber, but perhaps also glass fiber is the only way I know how to achieve that in a high quality way. I've heard no one say that I could just coat the wood with polymer, so I assume I need some kind of roving.
So basically, if you have a better idea, and I heard some good ideas already, like jacco's idea to use glass fiber instead, I'm totally open to it. I just don't see myself creating an aluminium box that looks the way I want it to.
Perhaps my fear of just coating something is irrational, I just have a feeling that if I use the regular coats of like varnish or polyutherane it will dent/scratch/flake or look like wood.
So basically, if you have a better idea, and I heard some good ideas already, like jacco's idea to use glass fiber instead, I'm totally open to it. I just don't see myself creating an aluminium box that looks the way I want it to.
Perhaps my fear of just coating something is irrational, I just have a feeling that if I use the regular coats of like varnish or polyutherane it will dent/scratch/flake or look like wood.
If you merely wish hard polishable surface, you could build a box from solid ply, sheet the inside with aluminum/copper, and put epoxy coating on the outside surface.
You can order a tutorial on various resins and laminating at the Polyservice site. Their pantsercoating e.g. is pretty tough, good stuff for yachts.
Other option is building a box from high pressure laminate plate (e.g. trespa hpl). If you use fillets, you can glue them with epoxy.
HPL plate is easy to spray paint.
(Or go nuts, insert flat head bolts in one panel, then glue a 2nd panel over it. Instant 10-20mm thick panels that can be nut-bolted together to make a box without visible holes)
You can order a tutorial on various resins and laminating at the Polyservice site. Their pantsercoating e.g. is pretty tough, good stuff for yachts.
Other option is building a box from high pressure laminate plate (e.g. trespa hpl). If you use fillets, you can glue them with epoxy.
HPL plate is easy to spray paint.
(Or go nuts, insert flat head bolts in one panel, then glue a 2nd panel over it. Instant 10-20mm thick panels that can be nut-bolted together to make a box without visible holes)
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