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-   -   Which glue to use for sub cabinet? (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/construction-tips/214882-glue-use-sub-cabinet.html)

caper26 21st June 2012 05:42 PM

Which glue to use for sub cabinet?
 
Hi guys. Local store has the following 3 glues. Are any better than the rest, or can I use whichever one is best value? 3/4" MDF for a sub cabinet.

LePage

Elmer's

Gorilla Wood Glue

Thanks in advance.

Cal Weldon 21st June 2012 05:58 PM

I use the LePage but any of those are fine. Stronger than you will ever need. The question really is...how are you fastening your boards? All I'm wondering is that if you are asking about glues are you ready to join your boards?

Don Snyder 21st June 2012 06:03 PM

None of the above ...

If your skills are up to par, TiteBond II or III is easy to use and clean-up. If you have to fill gaps, PL is the usual choice, but it gets all over everything.

In either case, the glue is stronger than the stuff holding the ply together, so don't bother with epoxy.

Most of the guys swear by the PL, but I've built 4 Tapped Horns with no leaks using TiteBond II.

Cal Weldon 21st June 2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Snyder (Post 3067469)
None of the above ...

Just a minute there Don.
Quote:

TiteBond II or III
Both good glues but we don't live in the states and our big stores don't carry them last time I looked.
Quote:

In either case, the glue is stronger than the stuff holding the ply together, so don't bother with epoxy.
True. I can't think of the last time I considered epoxy for wood to wood on something like a cabinet. Doesn't make sense.

The glues listed above are very good as well. Much stronger than they need to be for the joint. Also if you use the LePage's yellow glue shown, it has a great initial tack, a fast set and excellent filling and sanding properties. Besides if he is filling gaps he best be using full length cleats. That's why I asked how he was doing his joining.

caper26 21st June 2012 06:31 PM

Just making a standard cube cabinet for sub. I am just butting the panels together and clamping. That is what I did for my first sub, but I borrowed someone else's glue at the wood shop. I used hot glue on inside seams for sealing. Was at the store for something else yesterday and saw what they had available and just wanted to be sure there were none 'bad' for the job.

Don Snyder 21st June 2012 06:42 PM

Hi Cal : I didn't notice the Maple Leaf ... and don't suggest that TiteBond warants crossing an international border.

Sorry,
Don

jneutron 21st June 2012 06:52 PM

I hafta agree that the glues are stronger than the wood. I've used almost all mentioned.

I would worry about the underlying structure of the boards though. Particle board isn't exactly the strongest if the corner joints are flexed because there is no grain structure to speak of.

I typically add 3/4 by 3/4 blocks on the inner corners, and use my 15 guage finishing nailgun into the blocks, serves as more strength and holds it together during bonding.

ps. If you do use a nailgun, NEVER assume the nail will run straight within the wood. Been there, paid the price.:eek:

jn

chrisb 21st June 2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Snyder (Post 3067537)
Hi Cal : I didn't notice the Maple Leaf ... and don't suggest that TiteBond warants crossing an international border.

Sorry,
Don


Cal, et al -Titebond is easily available in the great white north through commercial jobber suppliers such as Richelieu, or E Roko ( the blue label II is quite good enough)


caper26 - you should still consider some mechanical fasteners (i.e. screws) for a sub box - #8 Lo-Roots are a good bet for MDF / particle board - just be sure to pilot drill carefully when edge screwing into these materials, don't get too close to the ends - or risk splitting, which will seriously diminish structural integrity, and countersink - otherwise you'll get mushrooming when sinking below the surface - and don't even think about backing them out.

I seem to recall seeing some lab test results wherein the moisture cured polyurethane glues (Gorilla, etc) actually came out behind the modified PVAs such as Titebonds, Dural Yellow AW2094, etc - but unless joinery and assembly is really sloppy :rolleyes:, any of them should be more than adequate for a speaker enclosure.

Cal Weldon 21st June 2012 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jneutron (Post 3067546)
I typically add 3/4 by 3/4 blocks on the inner corners, and use my 15 guage finishing nailgun into the blocks, serves as more strength and holds it together during bonding.

This is by far the best way I have found to do a box. So much faster, even joints, less mess, no fiddling around with things, just a man and his box. ;)
Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisb (Post 3067593)
Cal, et al -Titebond is easily available in the great white north through commercial jobber suppliers such as Richelieu, or E Roko ( the blue label II is quite good enough)

I am really asking why you might want to go the extra mile (oops, I mean kilometer here in Canada) when Titebond II and III only seem to win the glue wars when they are sponsoring the test. The independent tests seem to show there are variations and none seem to win by more than about 10 or 20% and who would worry about that anyway? The glued joint is still far stronger than the material. I am not going to drive 20 km to get a glue that I don't need and costs more am I?
Quote:

caper26 - you should still consider some mechanical fasteners (i.e. screws) for a sub box - #8 Lo-Roots are a good bet for MDF / particle board
Chris my friend, are we not steering him in the wrong direction? MDF? Screws? You must live in a place where the pace of life is a little slower and people a little more relaxed. :D By the way, is your roof finished yet?
Quote:

I seem to recall seeing some lab test results wherein the moisture cured polyurethane glues (Gorilla, etc) actually came out behind the modified PVAs
Yes and then there are the tests that show otherwise. I don't bother with Gorilla glue as I don't see the point.
Quote:

but unless joinery and assembly is really sloppy :rolleyes:, any of them should be more than adequate for a speaker enclosure.
Indeed. Go for the LePages. It has working qualities you will understand once you start doing things other than just speaker boxes. Especially overhead stuff. (this bit of invaluable advice is for caper26, not Chris. Chris, well, what can I say, Chris knows his stuff, I am just grasshopper.)
Quote:

Originally Posted by caper26 (Post 3067512)
Just making a standard cube cabinet for sub. I am just butting the panels together and clamping. That is what I did for my first sub, but I borrowed someone else's glue at the wood shop.

Consider the cleats, they are your friend.
Quote:

I used hot glue on inside seams for sealing.
Won't be necessary with cleats.
Quote:

Was at the store for something else yesterday and saw what they had available and just wanted to be sure there were none 'bad' for the job.
Nope all the glues you listed are fine. If you can break the joint, it won't be the glue's fault.

chrisb 21st June 2012 09:59 PM

Cal: yes the roof is done - Mike's crew did a great job, now I just have to deal with front entry door and painters -

trade contractors #$%@&F - it can take them longer to get out for a site meeting and write a quote than it does to do the job

oops, sorry buddy

as to the glue - sure whatever - I forget that not all DIYers posting here work in a commercial millwork shop that goes through about 100gallons of wood glue a year

what is the commute time / distance from your office to residence ? 20km is each way for me, before errands


And screws? - well there are AWMAC and other trade inspection requirements that require a minimum of mechanical fasteners, and I guess you just get used to building things a certain way. Kinda like a roof - 3/8" OSB on 24" centers, at Mount Washington chalet - sure no problem.

Even with cleats / glue blocks, I'd not want to rely just on brand nails for a heavy duty sub or PA box (any screws in your Altecs?)


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