Hi guys. Local store has the following 3 glues. Are any better than the rest, or can I use whichever one is best value? 3/4" MDF for a sub cabinet.
LePage
Elmer's
Gorilla Wood Glue
Thanks in advance.
LePage
Elmer's
Gorilla Wood Glue
Thanks in advance.
None of the above ...
If your skills are up to par, TiteBond II or III is easy to use and clean-up. If you have to fill gaps, PL is the usual choice, but it gets all over everything.
In either case, the glue is stronger than the stuff holding the ply together, so don't bother with epoxy.
Most of the guys swear by the PL, but I've built 4 Tapped Horns with no leaks using TiteBond II.
If your skills are up to par, TiteBond II or III is easy to use and clean-up. If you have to fill gaps, PL is the usual choice, but it gets all over everything.
In either case, the glue is stronger than the stuff holding the ply together, so don't bother with epoxy.
Most of the guys swear by the PL, but I've built 4 Tapped Horns with no leaks using TiteBond II.
Just a minute there Don.
Both good glues but we don't live in the states and our big stores don't carry them last time I looked.
True. I can't think of the last time I considered epoxy for wood to wood on something like a cabinet. Doesn't make sense.
The glues listed above are very good as well. Much stronger than they need to be for the joint. Also if you use the LePage's yellow glue shown, it has a great initial tack, a fast set and excellent filling and sanding properties. Besides if he is filling gaps he best be using full length cleats. That's why I asked how he was doing his joining.
Just making a standard cube cabinet for sub. I am just butting the panels together and clamping. That is what I did for my first sub, but I borrowed someone else's glue at the wood shop. I used hot glue on inside seams for sealing. Was at the store for something else yesterday and saw what they had available and just wanted to be sure there were none 'bad' for the job.
I hafta agree that the glues are stronger than the wood. I've used almost all mentioned.
I would worry about the underlying structure of the boards though. Particle board isn't exactly the strongest if the corner joints are flexed because there is no grain structure to speak of.
I typically add 3/4 by 3/4 blocks on the inner corners, and use my 15 guage finishing nailgun into the blocks, serves as more strength and holds it together during bonding.
ps. If you do use a nailgun, NEVER assume the nail will run straight within the wood. Been there, paid the price.
jn
I would worry about the underlying structure of the boards though. Particle board isn't exactly the strongest if the corner joints are flexed because there is no grain structure to speak of.
I typically add 3/4 by 3/4 blocks on the inner corners, and use my 15 guage finishing nailgun into the blocks, serves as more strength and holds it together during bonding.
ps. If you do use a nailgun, NEVER assume the nail will run straight within the wood. Been there, paid the price.
jn
Cal, et al -Titebond is easily available in the great white north through commercial jobber suppliers such as Richelieu, or E Roko ( the blue label II is quite good enough)
caper26 - you should still consider some mechanical fasteners (i.e. screws) for a sub box - #8 Lo-Roots are a good bet for MDF / particle board - just be sure to pilot drill carefully when edge screwing into these materials, don't get too close to the ends - or risk splitting, which will seriously diminish structural integrity, and countersink - otherwise you'll get mushrooming when sinking below the surface - and don't even think about backing them out.
I seem to recall seeing some lab test results wherein the moisture cured polyurethane glues (Gorilla, etc) actually came out behind the modified PVAs such as Titebonds, Dural Yellow AW2094, etc - but unless joinery and assembly is really sloppy
, any of them should be more than adequate for a speaker enclosure.
This is by far the best way I have found to do a box. So much faster, even joints, less mess, no fiddling around with things, just a man and his box.
I am really asking why you might want to go the extra mile (oops, I mean kilometer here in Canada) when Titebond II and III only seem to win the glue wars when they are sponsoring the test. The independent tests seem to show there are variations and none seem to win by more than about 10 or 20% and who would worry about that anyway? The glued joint is still far stronger than the material. I am not going to drive 20 km to get a glue that I don't need and costs more am I?
Chris my friend, are we not steering him in the wrong direction? MDF? Screws? You must live in a place where the pace of life is a little slower and people a little more relaxed.
By the way, is your roof finished yet? Yes and then there are the tests that show otherwise. I don't bother with Gorilla glue as I don't see the point.
Indeed. Go for the LePages. It has working qualities you will understand once you start doing things other than just speaker boxes. Especially overhead stuff. (this bit of invaluable advice is for caper26, not Chris. Chris, well, what can I say, Chris knows his stuff, I am just grasshopper.)but unless joinery and assembly is really sloppy
Consider the cleats, they are your friend.
Won't be necessary with cleats.
Nope all the glues you listed are fine. If you can break the joint, it won't be the glue's fault.
Cal: yes the roof is done - Mike's crew did a great job, now I just have to deal with front entry door and painters -
trade contractors #$%@&F - it can take them longer to get out for a site meeting and write a quote than it does to do the job
oops, sorry buddy
as to the glue - sure whatever - I forget that not all DIYers posting here work in a commercial millwork shop that goes through about 100gallons of wood glue a year
what is the commute time / distance from your office to residence ? 20km is each way for me, before errands
And screws? - well there are AWMAC and other trade inspection requirements that require a minimum of mechanical fasteners, and I guess you just get used to building things a certain way. Kinda like a roof - 3/8" OSB on 24" centers, at Mount Washington chalet - sure no problem.
Even with cleats / glue blocks, I'd not want to rely just on brand nails for a heavy duty sub or PA box (any screws in your Altecs?)
trade contractors #$%@&F - it can take them longer to get out for a site meeting and write a quote than it does to do the job
oops, sorry buddy
as to the glue - sure whatever - I forget that not all DIYers posting here work in a commercial millwork shop that goes through about 100gallons of wood glue a year
what is the commute time / distance from your office to residence ? 20km is each way for me, before errands
And screws? - well there are AWMAC and other trade inspection requirements that require a minimum of mechanical fasteners, and I guess you just get used to building things a certain way. Kinda like a roof - 3/8" OSB on 24" centers, at Mount Washington chalet - sure no problem.
Even with cleats / glue blocks, I'd not want to rely just on brand nails for a heavy duty sub or PA box (any screws in your Altecs?)
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I like to add the glue cleats to one panel first then clamp, nail, release the clamps and move on to the next panel. Super fast and very accurate alignment.
The Altecs used nails. No kidding, the big horn flares alone must have used 200 of them per box.
Hi,
Any cabinet that needs sealing isn't glued together properly. You should
really end wiping away excess glue to leave a bead along each seam.
rgds, sreten.
there is internal bracing all the way around. I used screws for that the last time. I don't think the corners are going anywhere with those...
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A Somewhat Related Question . . .
Can anybody suggest a realistic shelf-life for the original formula "Titebond Wood Glue"?
I recently pushed a workbench to a new location, and . . . waddayaknow . . . there's a mostly full gallon jug of the stuff hiding back in a corner, behind a bench leg. As best I can guess, it's been there since about 1996. I vaguely recall buying it, and putting some of it into a small squeeze bottle or two (as evidenced by some well-set glue around the cap), but have no recollection of stashing it back in that location. In the early 90's I would probably go through a gallon in 18 months or so, though I probably haven't used even half a gallon in the last 15 years.
Apart from missing a few ounces off the top, the container and cap seem intact. It still flows as a liquid inside the jug, though a bit sluggish. The color appears about right, as seen through the translucent plastic jug.
Is there a chance it's still usable? Yeah, the obvious answer is "Pour off an ounce or so and make a few glue joints.". But it appears the cap has been sealed in place, and I'm afraid that removing the cap will destroy it and then I'll have the problem of finding suitable storage for the glue. Or the aged plastic jug will rupture from attempting to remove the cap and I'll have to clean up a big mess of glue that maybe I should have tossed out rather than even bother with it.
Any ideas what to look for, that would tell me this glue isn't worth bothering with? I think the local price is about $20/gallon, so I'm a little reluctant to simply toss it all out.
Dale
Can anybody suggest a realistic shelf-life for the original formula "Titebond Wood Glue"?
I recently pushed a workbench to a new location, and . . . waddayaknow . . . there's a mostly full gallon jug of the stuff hiding back in a corner, behind a bench leg. As best I can guess, it's been there since about 1996. I vaguely recall buying it, and putting some of it into a small squeeze bottle or two (as evidenced by some well-set glue around the cap), but have no recollection of stashing it back in that location. In the early 90's I would probably go through a gallon in 18 months or so, though I probably haven't used even half a gallon in the last 15 years.
Apart from missing a few ounces off the top, the container and cap seem intact. It still flows as a liquid inside the jug, though a bit sluggish. The color appears about right, as seen through the translucent plastic jug.
Is there a chance it's still usable? Yeah, the obvious answer is "Pour off an ounce or so and make a few glue joints.". But it appears the cap has been sealed in place, and I'm afraid that removing the cap will destroy it and then I'll have the problem of finding suitable storage for the glue. Or the aged plastic jug will rupture from attempting to remove the cap and I'll have to clean up a big mess of glue that maybe I should have tossed out rather than even bother with it.
Any ideas what to look for, that would tell me this glue isn't worth bothering with? I think the local price is about $20/gallon, so I'm a little reluctant to simply toss it all out.
Dale
Can't do that. However, a little thought..
If the plastic container has sucked in over the years, then that means some of the volatiles have diffused through the plastic. If that's the case, the the chemistry is probably not going to work as well as fresh product.
I've had this issue with epoxies, especially hardener components. Because it's chock full of many different chemicals which I cannot even pronounce, and guaranteed they diffuse at different rates through the plastic, what you end up with after cure (assuming it cures at all) will be a material which is compromised.
It boils down to what the cost of failure might be. I'd toss it and get new.
btw, this is the same with liquid fluxes...if the plastic is sucked in as if it was vacuumed, don't use it.
jn
The biggest problem is freezing. If it is stored inside, kept at a decent temperature and it flows nicely without lumps or anything unusual looking, it should be fine. But... it's now 16 years old so use your common sense and do a glue test. It only takes a day to find out if you need a new bottle. If you're worried about rupture, put a bunch of newspaper inside a cardboard box to create a 'bowl'. Don't worry about it spoiling when opening the lid, it is water based so you can always rejuvenate it. If you are worried, point the nozzle of a plant mister in the hole and give 'er a squirt. Just remember to stir it before the next use.
Ah, thanks Cal. I hadn't considered water based. While I use some, I never have it long enough to worry about shelf life. I only buy small containers.
jn
Now now, this is a family forum... (although, hmm..nevermind)
Less cost per ounce. False economy. Trust me.
I buy small cause me no gots room. Small basement..
jn
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