Some thoughts on alternative cooling - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Design & Build > Construction Tips

Construction Tips Construction techniques and tips

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th October 2011, 05:17 PM   #1
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Default Some thoughts on alternative cooling

Dear All.... I do not know much about ss, tubes or audio in general. Just an amateur builder who is eager and happy to learn from thos who know and are willing to share.

I do however have some extensive experience in alternative methods of cooling especially in the area of PC, overclocking and benchtesting.

I would like to open a thread and submit some ideas I have (some currenly under testing) to alternatively cool large and powerful amps (like pure A pass amplifiers).

These are the main techniques I have tried with PCs

1. watercooling

2. TEC (peltier modules which need extensive and additional cooling)

3. Phase change

Computer cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Some of these techniques have obvious downsides. Phase change for example is extreme (multiple stages can achieve almost absolute 0 temperatures) and are bound to create interference both on the main lines, around the compressors.

However Liquid cooling, I believe, can effectively be used to help keep size, weight, cost and temeprature at bay.

Watercooling is based on the simple yet effective idea that water is used to transfer heat from the source to radiators which are designed and operate in conjuntion with fans (even undervolted) to eliminate heat.

The system usually works by using small electric 12v pumps which can be extremely effective, low noise, low power and still keep a good flow rate.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

In some casewatercooling can yield asonshing results. I have personally rigged 2 audi tt radiators to passively cool an extremely overclocked CPU (putting out heaps of heat)

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The heat is generate by a very small die which can put out several hundreds of watts of heat

Click the image to open in full size. (my e6600 with the HIS removed)

Now the essential part of the system is the waterblock.

This can bel made out in several shapes, sizes and materials. Obviousl specific designs are required for high efficiency systems which have to achiev tremendous performance in small packages.

For example this a modern waterblock:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

however blocks can be much simpler....infact they can be as simple as this:

Click the image to open in full size.

or even simpler...

right now I am experimenting with simple rectangular extrusions of pure copper wich will be interposed between an ordinary finned heatsink (like the ones we normally use in audio) and the common heatspreader of a generic array of devices

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

The extrsuion would behave as a simple channel for flowing water, offer almost no resistance and yet help to divert most of the heat to radiators possibily mounted on top or at the bottom of a chassis.

Imagine radiators like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

In essence I am exploring the possibility of using watercooling as an effective way to deal with increasing power consumptions, costs and weight which for some of us can and do present serious problems.

If you have any thought on the matter please post here..

I will keep you updated with diagrams, photos of my work etc.


Last edited by Alexontherocks; 8th October 2011 at 05:20 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 05:28 PM   #2
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
I forgot to mention that a 12v pump can be regulated thermically to provide stable tempertures under the most extreme situations. In turn temperature stability would provide longer component life, stable output figures and a more predictable device behaviour.

Obviously the amps can be made smaller in dimensions and still provide room and cooling capacity for large amplifier modules.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 06:53 PM   #3
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Here is what I am doing...

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


I believe this could be an effective design given that we would not be seeking low temperatures rather reducing the amount of heat exchanged by the ordinary finned heatsink.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:01 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada
Can you not clamp the copper tube with the angle aluminum directly, so that you can bypass the aluminum bar? Or rather, get rid of the angle and keep the bar, but drill/tap it so that you can screw the chips into it. I see some ways you can reduce the thermal resistance there... Also, if you set up the loop properly, there will be no need for those fins.

Water cooling is definitely a solution more people need to explore, though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:12 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Once you go through the complexity and expense of a water system one of the offsetting features is the lack of need for convection cooling at all. Unless you are looking for failsafe protection, added convection cooling is a waste. It just makes it bulkier and more expensive.

As previously mentioned , you want the dissipation to be as close to the water as possible. Get rid of any additional interfaces if possible, especially angles or tabs that force conduction through a thin length of material.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:12 PM   #6
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Drilling on a pipelike structure is tricky and I would not do it unless an alternative is actually impossible...

However take into account the fact that low temperatures are not what we are looking for...infact we have two opposing objectives. Keep the temperatures high enough for optimal output (the multiple surfaces will actually work towards such a goal by providing a suboptimal situation for heat transfer) and obviously we seek some form of cooling which will be provided by the moving water. Also once the water temperature stabilizes the temperature itself will be regulated by the speed of the fans..

Other pics to show the rest of the project:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:18 PM   #7
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Eckhardt View Post
Once you go through the complexity and expense of a water system one of the offsetting features is the lack of need for convection cooling at all. Unless you are looking for failsafe protection, added convection cooling is a waste. It just makes it bulkier and more expensive.

As previously mentioned , you want the dissipation to be as close to the water as possible. Get rid of any additional interfaces if possible, especially angles or tabs that force conduction through a thin length of material.
I was actually thinking of a failsafe. In case waterpumps stop the water inside will act as a conductive core (a pretty good one)
So in essence some time will be pass before the underdimensioned convection heatsinks will fail and temperatures begin rising beyond tollerable levels.

I agree that less is better however dilling inside a tube structure is just not feasable.

I could look into this:
http://www.aavidthermalloy.com/sites...-hicontact.pdf

but really it would be less flexibile than just using extrusions cut to requirements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:22 PM   #8
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Of course one could rig a flowmeter to powerdown the amp if flow goes under a specific value. Shouldn't be too hard!
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:32 PM   #9
AndrewT is offline AndrewT  Scotland
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Scottish Borders
can the four devices be clamped direct to the water pipe/tube by the bolted on clamp plate?

This dispenses with the angle completely.

Another clamp plate instead of the heatsink and one could clamp up twice as many devices with the leads just the thickness of the water tube apart (+3mm).

The usual temp switch on the sink to power down on overtemperature, with or without a latch.
__________________
regards Andrew T.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th October 2011, 07:35 PM   #10
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Yes Andrew infact I was just working on this option... thanks for spotting this out!

This is a small rendering of what the case could look like once we reduce the dimensions to the bare minimum....

Click the image to open in full size.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cabinet cooling darien87 Everything Else 12 8th June 2007 12:50 AM
LM4780 and cooling john_lenfr Chip Amps 27 19th July 2005 12:01 PM
rectifier cooling... kasra Pass Labs 7 20th December 2003 02:02 PM
Cooling an amp with poor cooling BAM Solid State 8 31st December 2001 05:40 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:19 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2