Hello all,
So I'm looking into building my own full range speaker cabinets but I have very very little experience with wood-working. I was wondering if there were any very easy plans out there that actually sound good and have decent bass extension. I'm looking at getting a fostex driver perhaps the 8in fe206en, unless any of their 6 in drivers would be adequate. I'd prefer smaller cabs but I know after extensive research that the only real way to get good bass out of these full rangers are big horn-loaded or quarter wave enclosures. I just don't think I'm up to the task of building something that complex. Has anyone had any experience with bass-reflex cabs and fostex drivers. I'm looking to get down to 50hz (I'm sure that's asking for a lot), if it could go lower that would be amazing! If this is not possible, has anyone had experience pairing a small full ranger with a subwoofer? Do you lose all of that full range magic I hear so much about?
Sorry for the long post guys I've just been really consumed by this thought of listening to full-range speakers. After everything I've read I feel like its something that could forever change my view on audio.
A little background - I have a t amp currently paired with some paradigm mini monitors. By far not the most expensive set-up, but I really enjoy the sound. Do you guys think full-rangers be worth the time and money?
Thank you all for your time!!
So I'm looking into building my own full range speaker cabinets but I have very very little experience with wood-working. I was wondering if there were any very easy plans out there that actually sound good and have decent bass extension. I'm looking at getting a fostex driver perhaps the 8in fe206en, unless any of their 6 in drivers would be adequate. I'd prefer smaller cabs but I know after extensive research that the only real way to get good bass out of these full rangers are big horn-loaded or quarter wave enclosures. I just don't think I'm up to the task of building something that complex. Has anyone had any experience with bass-reflex cabs and fostex drivers. I'm looking to get down to 50hz (I'm sure that's asking for a lot), if it could go lower that would be amazing! If this is not possible, has anyone had experience pairing a small full ranger with a subwoofer? Do you lose all of that full range magic I hear so much about?
Sorry for the long post guys I've just been really consumed by this thought of listening to full-range speakers. After everything I've read I feel like its something that could forever change my view on audio.
A little background - I have a t amp currently paired with some paradigm mini monitors. By far not the most expensive set-up, but I really enjoy the sound. Do you guys think full-rangers be worth the time and money?
Thank you all for your time!!
The Fostex FExx6 are not reall suited to a simple cabinet that makes bass, A frugel-horn Mk3 is as simle as it gets for a horn, is small and even with just the 4.5" FE126En will make more bass than FE266 or FE206 in a simple bass reflex (and with more finese). Not a build for someone who expresses your level of comfort at box building. More & more flat-pak providers are coming on-line for these, and then the speaker box build is more a case of assembly (not quite IKEA simple since you do need to use glue).
The new Fostex FFxx5wk series is claimed to be of spec more suitable for BR (or maybe even sealed), they are scheduled to arrive in North America mid-end June, Once specs are available some simple boxes can be proposed,
The Mark Audio drivers (including the CSS EL70) can be put into a simple box, some are OK sealed, but deeper bass requires a BR. I am working thru a set of suggested alignments for all of them for the pre-built boxes available at Madisound & PE. 2 EL70 in a BR box can produce some serious bass.
Some of the TBs work well in a reflex box as well. And i'm sure i have missed some.
dave
The new Fostex FFxx5wk series is claimed to be of spec more suitable for BR (or maybe even sealed), they are scheduled to arrive in North America mid-end June, Once specs are available some simple boxes can be proposed,
The Mark Audio drivers (including the CSS EL70) can be put into a simple box, some are OK sealed, but deeper bass requires a BR. I am working thru a set of suggested alignments for all of them for the pre-built boxes available at Madisound & PE. 2 EL70 in a BR box can produce some serious bass.
Some of the TBs work well in a reflex box as well. And i'm sure i have missed some.
dave
I run a Fostex 4.5" driver and they can produce a surprising amount of bass.......nice, clean bass. I have mine in a simple ported bookshelf cabinet for now. I am like you in I have little experience building (none in fact) and I have no access to the tools. Some home repair places will cut the material for you, this may be my route. I decided to go with the "Brynn" (looks simple enough) cabinet when I'm ready......wish that came in a flat pack 
One thing I enjoy about the smaller drivers is the shock on peoples faces when they hear them.....kind of fun.
One thing I enjoy about the smaller drivers is the shock on peoples faces when they hear them.....kind of fun.
Thank you all for your responses. Would you say that the EL70's sound good even when compared to fostex drivers? Could anyone point me to simple designs based on the EL70's. I am very comfortable with their price and could buy a pair now but do you think it would be worth the wait for the newer fostex drivers?
At the sacrifice of efficiency, the EL70 goes higher, goes lower, is more neutral thru the midrange, and is relatively flat.
When treated (and its objectionable 7 k peak dealt with) the FE127eN has maybe a bit more magic thru the midrange, but the differential has gotten smaller & smaller & smaller as the hours wear on. The EL70 needs some 500 Hrs of break in to get the last little bit of mid finesse out of it.
If you have the power (i recommend 10 W minimum) go for the EL70 (or EL70eN). Here are some of the boxes for the EL70 (more coming all the time)
dave
When treated (and its objectionable 7 k peak dealt with) the FE127eN has maybe a bit more magic thru the midrange, but the differential has gotten smaller & smaller & smaller as the hours wear on. The EL70 needs some 500 Hrs of break in to get the last little bit of mid finesse out of it.
If you have the power (i recommend 10 W minimum) go for the EL70 (or EL70eN). Here are some of the boxes for the EL70 (more coming all the time)
dave
Thank you Dave, I think I might buy those sometime this week. You said they give serious bass in a BR cab. In terms of frequency do you have any idea what is possible? Most manufacturers rate low end extension to -3db from what I've seen. Do you think that the EL70's in a BR can get me to at least 50hz at -3db?
Thanks again for all your responses
kevin
Thanks again for all your responses
kevin
Sorry, I just read some of your plans and they do indeed go down that low. Some all the way to 35hz. That is absolutely phenomenal bass from a driver that's not even 3 inches (unless I'm wrong but 70mm is under 3 inches right?). I'm absolutely amazed that that's even possible! However there's one design that I think I can actually accomplish but isn't listed. How low does the single driver half tower go down to?
Thanks again
kevin
Thanks again
kevin
EL70 is considered a 4" driver.
Have a look for some of Niklas' comments (aka Rullknufs).
F3 of 40 Hz is fairly easy, don't expect the displacement to rival a large woofer, but they can cause a serious disconnect when you see the driver & hear the bass.
F3 does not actually have much correlation with what people hear when they perceive bass, F6 & F10 are more useful.
dave
Have a look for some of Niklas' comments (aka Rullknufs).
F3 of 40 Hz is fairly easy, don't expect the displacement to rival a large woofer, but they can cause a serious disconnect when you see the driver & hear the bass.
F3 does not actually have much correlation with what people hear when they perceive bass, F6 & F10 are more useful.
dave
Ah I see! I really know nothing more than what mainstream audio gear claims. I was actually reading the entire thread that Rullknufs started about the Mar-Kel70 build. It sounds extremely promising and as a matter of fact might be better for me due to its smaller size. Would I be missing out on bass if I chose the Mar-Kel70 vs the half tower? Like him I listen to a lot of bass-heavy music.
Not to thread snipe here but what current Fostex model is nearest the FE127E? I have a friend with the 126's and you are right....different beasts.
Dave,
Toppsy's speakers look simply awesome... I can see them with my eyes closed. Colin says that they play rock music very well. I always used to think it was a Twin CHR-Ken - then learnt those are 2 x Alp 10s! (probably 1st gen).
Twin Alp 12 would be interesting indeed... maybe once Alp 12.3 comes out with most of the upgrades of the "wishlist" (i.e. paper cone, more bass, square voice coil among others) you can do a POC?
Regarding Twin Alp 10 Kens doing great with rock music... after playing with Castle MTs if I have some obervations/hypothesis about FR and loud/noisy rock/metal - will share.
Excuse my newbie ignorance, what are you refering to as 1.5 way?
-Zia
Toppsy's speakers look simply awesome... I can see them with my eyes closed
. Colin says that they play rock music very well. I always used to think it was a Twin CHR-Ken - then learnt those are 2 x Alp 10s! (probably 1st gen).Twin Alp 12 would be interesting indeed... maybe once Alp 12.3 comes out with most of the upgrades of the "wishlist" (i.e. paper cone, more bass, square voice coil among others) you can do a POC?
Regarding Twin Alp 10 Kens doing great with rock music... after playing with Castle MTs if I have some obervations/hypothesis about FR and loud/noisy rock/metal - will share.
Excuse my newbie ignorance, what are you refering to as 1.5 way?
-Zia
Dave, the mar-kel70 looks do-able for me. Except for one thing. Where the driver is mounted. It looks like there is an angled cut, plus flush mounting. What tools/techniques do u need to accomplish that? Is the inside angle cut absolutely necessary? Also are all the other angled cuts just 45 degrees?
Thanks for the help!
Kevin
Thanks for the help!
Kevin
A TLA i am not familiar with.
Using 2 identical drivers and rolling off the top end of one of them. Used primarily as a way to compensate for bafflestep, but also gives more cone at low frequencies & more of a point source at hi-frequencies.
Amplifier output impedance is an important consideration.
dave
Releiving the back of the cut-out is important for minimizing boxy/cupped sound in the midrange. It can be acomplished using a big rasp. The fancy & elegant ones shown, are usually accomplished with a specific router bit.
There are some drivers you can get away with no bezel rebate. Most of the Fostex for instance. But a deep circular bezel really benefits from being flush.
The rebate is usually accomplished with a router, But it can also be accomplished by flush mounting the driver and then building up the baffle with 1 or more layers of material (it doesn't even need to be wood. Corl or dense felt would work. The layers on top would only need a round hole cut in them.
The big champher is 45 degrees and usually cut off the built box with a big table saw. But people have done it with a skill saw, or even in one case with a hand saw. Lots of sanding usually required. The Classic GR versions were done to get the same alignment with an easier build.
dave
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