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Old 10th January 2011, 05:27 PM   #81
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Of course, there's always something like this:

Elven 3020 CNC Router/PCB,Engraving Machine - eBay (item 320638848618 end time Jan-11-11 19:25:10 PST)

A bit more expensive, but much more flexible, this would make a good shared resource for a local group of DIYers. I would buy one in a minute, but right now I don't make enough PCBs to justify it.

Perhaps next year...............

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Old 11th January 2011, 04:28 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jandr49 View Post
All paper will disolve or disintegrate in water as long as its not 'sized' or coated - This is exactly what you get with cheap 1 side coated photo or presentation paper (2 for 20 sheets from local supermarket) - the water can get to the base paper through the non coated side and the paper just falls off
If only it was that simple.
The paper must have a coating to prevent the toner from being absorbed when heated with the iron. If half the toner is absorbed by the paper, then even with disintegrating paper you will only get half the toner stuck to the copper - lots of pinholes and broken traces...
The coating must be able to withstand the heat and pressure of the hot iron, and basically expel the toner onto the PCB when it cools. Hence some papers are better than others, as discussed in this thread.
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Old 11th January 2011, 12:08 PM   #83
jandr49 is offline jandr49  United Kingdom
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The point I was making is very simple and I did not suggest that some papers are not better than others - a lot of papers talked about on this thread are coated both sides - the coating is there to provide a smooth uniform base that controls ink absorbsion, and as photo paper is designed for injet printers that use water based inks it is therefore relatively waterproof - the point I was making was that if you use cheap single sided coated paper the back of the paper (providing it is not sized to restrict water absorbsion) will soak up water like a sponge and disintegrate, leaving the coating on the board which is easy to removed leaving the toner image firmly stuck to the board - I have never seen any sign of toner migrating though the coating on any paper that I have tried, however much heat I have applied with an iron, and have therefore not suffered pinholes or broken traces because of it.

Regards

Richard
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Old 11th January 2011, 06:36 PM   #84
TroelsM is offline TroelsM  Denmark
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Hi.

I'm in UK on business and had hoped to buy a pack of the good paper from Staples.... - apparently the item-numbers are different in staples UK and staples US / Canada (why???)

Can Anyone confirm what the Item-numbers for the good papers are in the UK? I've tried to search the site without finding any that looks right.

Thanks for any help. I'm to tired to think for myself..

TroelsM
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Old 11th January 2011, 07:10 PM   #85
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Staples UK seems to have completely different products than this side of the hemisphere (and a limited selection at that). I would just go there if you can and ask to see what selection of glossy laser paper they have (NOT glossy photo paper).
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Old 11th January 2011, 07:22 PM   #86
TroelsM is offline TroelsM  Denmark
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Hi

Thanks for the fast answer

I got so frustrated that I bought a almost-full pack of some laser-color-paper at half price at the counter.
Time will tell if its any good. Time will tell if I ever get the free time to test it.

Kind regards TroelsM
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Old 11th January 2011, 07:33 PM   #87
jandr49 is offline jandr49  United Kingdom
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Bear in mind that Staples do not make paper (either laser or photo paper) - they will buy it in from a paper mill (normally the cheapest)and it is unlikely that paper available in the US/Canada will be from the same source as the UK. Even if the stock number is the same it is unlikely that the product will behave the same - the specification that Staples will have the paper made to will be specific the use they sell it for i.e. laser or injet printing - the qualities that we are looking for to make PCB's is unlikely to be considered or controled

Last edited by jandr49; 11th January 2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 11th January 2011, 11:32 PM   #88
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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theAnonymous: which sku/item # is the HP presentation paper item 637889 Model Q2546A (HP color Laser Presentation Paper) or item #863054 Model CG988A (HP Laser Presentation Paper Glossy) sorry I couldnt think of a canadian postal code, I can just pick fake numbers from my head at random pretty much for the US ones, but dont have a clue about the cannucks.
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Old 26th January 2011, 01:18 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJL21193 View Post
I'll pick a cheap one up and give it a try. If it doesn't do the job, I'll return it.
I tried the Staples brand laminator ($100) without success. It simply doesn't get hot enough. I ran the board through 4 times and it still hadn't started to stick.

I think I'll stay with the clothes iron. It really isn't much of a hardship and certainly isn't the most unpleasant aspect of the process - cleaning the board is MUCH worse.

Last edited by MJL21193; 26th January 2011 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 26th January 2011, 01:57 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJL21193 View Post
I tried the Staples brand laminator ($100) without success. It simply doesn't get hot enough. I ran the board through 4 times and it still hadn't started to stick.

I think I'll stay with the clothes iron. It really isn't much of a hardship and certainly isn't the most unpleasant aspect of the process - cleaning the board is MUCH worse.
Sorry to hear the laminator didn't work out.

How long did you let it heat up before you ran the board through? I let my GBC laminator heat up for 20-30 minutes. The transfers stick to the boards completely on the first pass.

If you ever feel like giving a laminator another shot, see if you can find a GBC H212 for a reasonable price. You can find them for under $100 down here, but everything in Canada seems to cost twice as much (if you can even find it there at all).

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, what is the power consumption of the Staples laminator? The H212 is 480W.

Last edited by theAnonymous1; 26th January 2011 at 02:12 PM.
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