i am trying so hard because when i had this amp connected in the car.. the little clip light kept coming on far too early.
i can only imagine that the amplifier was being starved of amperage.
the car has a stock 120amp alternator and a regular platinum duty cycle battery.
i dont want to run the subwoofer with a bunch of square waves.. i'm looking for sound quality AND spl - not just spl.
i thought about this when i first read it.. and i would like to bring the amp back into the car some day.
besides, if the amp fails.. i would need to re-configure for a new amplifier.
What would most likely happen is that one PSU (if in parallel) will supply all of the current until it reaches it's current limit, at that point the output voltage will drop until it reaches the preset output voltage of the second (slightly lower) psu.
Obviously this is undesirable as it means one of them will always be flat out if the load is high, it won't last as long! This is why current sharing is better than redundant supplies.
If you series connect 5V supplies then you only need the diode accross the outputs to protect the supplies in the unlikely event that one goes down on you! They'll all supply the same current which the load demands, as long as they are set to the same voltage then it should be reliable.
Yes it'd be great if the PSUs could be syncronised, though in certain respects it's better if they aren't as any switching RFI is spread over wider band of frequencies rather than being lumped at a single frequency. It's nothing to do with the 60Hz mains but down to the switching frequency of the PSU itself, this is likely to be over 25KHz.
Obviously this is undesirable as it means one of them will always be flat out if the load is high, it won't last as long! This is why current sharing is better than redundant supplies.
If you series connect 5V supplies then you only need the diode accross the outputs to protect the supplies in the unlikely event that one goes down on you! They'll all supply the same current which the load demands, as long as they are set to the same voltage then it should be reliable.
Yes it'd be great if the PSUs could be syncronised, though in certain respects it's better if they aren't as any switching RFI is spread over wider band of frequencies rather than being lumped at a single frequency. It's nothing to do with the 60Hz mains but down to the switching frequency of the PSU itself, this is likely to be over 25KHz.
Surely, someone else has spotted things like:
POWERCOOL|PC850AUBA|PSU, 850W 80+ DUAL 12V V2.2, POWERCOOL | CPC
POWERCOOL|PC850AUBA|PSU, 850W 80+ DUAL 12V V2.2, POWERCOOL | CPC
No, what happens is the same as a normal mutitapped transformer
The secondary windings on the SMPS PSU will have multiple taps for each voltage, these will be fed through different rectifiers for each voltage & then into an inductor. The inductor will have the same kind of turns ratio as the transformer to keep all the supplies as closely regulated as possible. Ok, it might have 3 or 5 times as many turns but the ratio will be kept the same.As an example say your 3.3V has a single turn on the TX & 4 turns on the inductor, the 12V will likely have 4 turns on the TX & 16 on the inductor..It's a way of keeping things stable compared to each other & really helps with the output regulation
OK, just for reference, your car battery (even a small one...) is capable of in excess of 400 amps at dead short. And 100 amps is an arc welding rating, so your cables need to be appropriately sized. Use that imagination of yours.
If you had a clipping problem, it wasn't due to supply current unless your cabling was substandard. Otherwise, your car would have stopped every time the amp clipped....
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I think there is a few factors causing this clip led to come on.
One is the gain or source problem/factor.
Two is the amp has prob
Three is the heat, not enough ventilation.
Four is the power cable used is too small. Min 4 AWG for a sedan like Altis (from Bonnet to Trunk length)
I strongly believe its not the power problem. As power delivery problem will cause the bass to sound blurry, lack of power and recovers when there is a few seconds break, not clip with proper tuning as far as my experience tells me (I used to play SQL = SPL + SQ with Audison VRX).
Btw, have you tried to ram your engine to 3krpm and see if the clip prob still exist? Its because at 3~4krpm, most car alternator will then only give out its max rated power.
I just had quick glance at the current Hifonics amps, It seems to me most of them are Class D amps not AB or A which lowers the possibly of power delivery & heat problem. Unless you have an old Skool hifionics (>10yrs old) then its a total different story.
My 2 cents
Ps: Sorry guys, I know its not a car or ICE forum but I feel bad if i dont chip in to help threadstarter.
Heehehee.. done that clipping with too loud vol & too high music recording level, my aircon and car engine, still running.
Just find some surplus SMPS units on ebay , there are generally a number listed. Select ones that have variable voltage and those that can be mastered and slaved if you cant find one that will supply all the amps on it's own. Most of the more recent types can be used on any supply from 110 to 250 volts and frequency from 40 to 400 Hz.
Just out of curiosity I have one big Farnell lab supply that's rated at 0-30 volts upto 100 amps !! But , even if you could find one it weighs 90 KG with a Tx that has to be seen to be believed !! Actually , I have 2 of them and 2 of it's smaller brothers , they are 0-60 volts upto 25 amps. They can be master slaved in parallel or series and programmed for almost any application. They are a pre-regulator design that reduces the voltage drop across the series regulator to minimise dissipation. Great nerd candy
As your in the USA , look for surplus Kepco stuff on ebay , they also do some heavy amp stuff similar to Farnell.
Just out of curiosity I have one big Farnell lab supply that's rated at 0-30 volts upto 100 amps !! But , even if you could find one it weighs 90 KG with a Tx that has to be seen to be believed !! Actually , I have 2 of them and 2 of it's smaller brothers , they are 0-60 volts upto 25 amps. They can be master slaved in parallel or series and programmed for almost any application. They are a pre-regulator design that reduces the voltage drop across the series regulator to minimise dissipation. Great nerd candy
As your in the USA , look for surplus Kepco stuff on ebay , they also do some heavy amp stuff similar to Farnell.
my car is a uni-body (without a frame)
so the jigsaw pieces of metal are welded together.. but i think the weld they used is a rubber glue (or otherwise a terrible conductor)
i had my positive ran from the battery and then tried to ground the amps in the trunk.
yes, i consider the wiring substandard thanks to the unibody skeleton of the vehicle.
i had ground noise.. which they say is because the voltage at the amplifier is different than the voltage at the radio.. another indictator of the amplifiers not getting the current they needed.
i had multiple things happen over and over.. so i couldnt buy new/more power wire.
i just put the whole project on hold, because i said i wanted to do it right with some kinetik powercells.. and then just run the system for an hour off the batteries (rather than try to run the system off the stock alternator)
i'd just use the stock voltage system to re-charge those batteries.
well..
the project was out of my price range with the amount of money i had to play with.
now i am looking to hook the subwoofer up in the house to kill some time.
i'm thinking it will be cheaper than finishing the install in the car.. and my home theater is missing an amplified subwoofer, so i need a power supply in the house anyways to fill the gap in my home theater.
I think there is a few factors causing this clip led to come on.
One is the gain or source problem/factor.
Two is the amp has prob
Three is the heat, not enough ventilation.
Four is the power cable used is too small. Min 4 AWG for a sedan like Altis (from Bonnet to Trunk length)
I strongly believe its not the power problem. As power delivery problem will cause the bass to sound blurry, lack of power and recovers when there is a few seconds break, not clip with proper tuning as far as my experience tells me (I used to play SQL = SPL + SQ with Audison VRX).
Btw, have you tried to ram your engine to 3krpm and see if the clip prob still exist? Its because at 3~4krpm, most car alternator will then only give out its max rated power.
I just had quick glance at the current Hifonics amps, It seems to me most of them are Class D amps not AB or A which lowers the possibly of power delivery & heat problem. Unless you have an old Skool hifionics (>10yrs old) then its a total different story.
My 2 cents
Ps: Sorry guys, I know its not a car or ICE forum but I feel bad if i dont chip in to help threadstarter.
the gauge wire i used is 4awg.
the amp DID NOT have a line driver.. although that i something i want to install, along with the kinetik power cells.
i was using cheap rca's too.
as you can read in my post above.. my install was not ideal, so i abondoned the project until i had money to build up the necessary components.
the only thing i had correct was the wire gauge.. but little good it does if the vehicles ground is pathetic.
i need to run a dedicated ground from the battery.. and as i said above, i dont want to half-*** it anymore without the power cell and line driver.
i thought i would use some old power supplies that i have collected from upgrading the computers.
and i need a power supply in the house to provide a car amplifier power for my home theater sub.
my current speakers are only good for 36hz and higher.
okay.. i hooked up the amplifier with one power supply just to get the ball rolling.
took me an hour to remember that the grey and green wires of my dell power supply had to be jumped for the power to stay on.
and then something i kinda expected to happen DID happen.
the bloody amplifier melted the RCA cord.
and this doesnt seem so strange because when i had the amp hooked up in the car things were kinda 'off' and i thought maybe it had something to do with an amplifier of such power.
only one rca cord of the two melted.
i posted in another forum about a precision power amplifier that was in bad shape.. i was told that the power transistors failed and so did one of the channels (maybe both of 'em since i had it hooked up in the house and got no output from either channel)
i am having a hell of a time.
i bring my home theater receiver home from storage and the right rear channel does not work anymore.
my hi-fi pair of headphones.. the right side speaker is blown.
i also brought my tower speakers with 12 inch woofers and hifi midranges home.. and one of the midranges is blown, making a crackle noise from a shoddy coil break/burn.
(although the midrange was my fault because i allowed the woofer to slap the magnet a couple times while watching movies.. typical break-in roughness and the speaker didnt survive)
grado said it would cost $25 to fix my headphones.
another peerless nomax midrange will cost me about $50
i want to know what is wrong with this giant hifonics amplifier that i have.
did somebody do a repair and make an error.. or has something inside failed which is causing voltage to leak into the rca input jacks?
was there a severe ground loop that happened?
i'd like to know why such a thing has happened.. and i'd like to know if it is repairable or if i need to sell the amp to someone who can afford to pay an electrical engineer.
that precision power amp is going back for a warranty return.
but this one i bought used and there is no warranty.
i broke my 32inch sony television by setting the horizontal and vertical really tiny, just messing around.. now the protection circuit says i blew a power supply or something like that.
my little windup alarm clock is intermittently broken.. i think i dropped it one too many times.
my car's hub started to squeek and i replaced it.. THEN THE FRONT started to squeek (or was it the front the entire time.?)
my oxygen sensor's heating element is bad, causing the check engine light to come on.
i need new windshield wipers.. i'm out of washer fluid.
my brakes are gonna need replaced in just a few months.
i've got some l.e.d. flashlights that flicker all the time because the contacts are goofy.
i bought a webcam and have never really used it.
my self-powered usb hub died.. had to go get a new one (warranty was up)
i put my laptop on ebay for a measley $100 and it didnt sell.
i have had terrible luck the past 3 months.
anyways.. i posted this because i would love to fix this amplifier for what its worth.
i am just wondering if anybody can hunt down the reason and correct the problem.
if this isnt a rather common error.. i may just destroy the circuit board so no punk can reverse engineer the problem and create a fire starting amplifier.
getting my *** kicked,
anwaypasible
took me an hour to remember that the grey and green wires of my dell power supply had to be jumped for the power to stay on.
and then something i kinda expected to happen DID happen.
the bloody amplifier melted the RCA cord.
and this doesnt seem so strange because when i had the amp hooked up in the car things were kinda 'off' and i thought maybe it had something to do with an amplifier of such power.
only one rca cord of the two melted.
i posted in another forum about a precision power amplifier that was in bad shape.. i was told that the power transistors failed and so did one of the channels (maybe both of 'em since i had it hooked up in the house and got no output from either channel)
i am having a hell of a time.
i bring my home theater receiver home from storage and the right rear channel does not work anymore.
my hi-fi pair of headphones.. the right side speaker is blown.
i also brought my tower speakers with 12 inch woofers and hifi midranges home.. and one of the midranges is blown, making a crackle noise from a shoddy coil break/burn.
(although the midrange was my fault because i allowed the woofer to slap the magnet a couple times while watching movies.. typical break-in roughness and the speaker didnt survive)
grado said it would cost $25 to fix my headphones.
another peerless nomax midrange will cost me about $50
i want to know what is wrong with this giant hifonics amplifier that i have.
did somebody do a repair and make an error.. or has something inside failed which is causing voltage to leak into the rca input jacks?
was there a severe ground loop that happened?
i'd like to know why such a thing has happened.. and i'd like to know if it is repairable or if i need to sell the amp to someone who can afford to pay an electrical engineer.
that precision power amp is going back for a warranty return.
but this one i bought used and there is no warranty.
i broke my 32inch sony television by setting the horizontal and vertical really tiny, just messing around.. now the protection circuit says i blew a power supply or something like that.
my little windup alarm clock is intermittently broken.. i think i dropped it one too many times.
my car's hub started to squeek and i replaced it.. THEN THE FRONT started to squeek (or was it the front the entire time.?)
my oxygen sensor's heating element is bad, causing the check engine light to come on.
i need new windshield wipers.. i'm out of washer fluid.
my brakes are gonna need replaced in just a few months.
i've got some l.e.d. flashlights that flicker all the time because the contacts are goofy.
i bought a webcam and have never really used it.
my self-powered usb hub died.. had to go get a new one (warranty was up)
i put my laptop on ebay for a measley $100 and it didnt sell.
i have had terrible luck the past 3 months.
anyways.. i posted this because i would love to fix this amplifier for what its worth.
i am just wondering if anybody can hunt down the reason and correct the problem.
if this isnt a rather common error.. i may just destroy the circuit board so no punk can reverse engineer the problem and create a fire starting amplifier.
getting my *** kicked,
anwaypasible
there was a ground issue while the amp was installed in the car.
i grounded the rca's to reduce the noise, but the ground noise never went away - which is another reason why i held off on the vehicle install.
the computer power supply was used to power a computer for a few months prior to becoming an amplifier power supply.
although the power supply does make a 'humm' or 'buzz' noise that is quite loud.. could that have something to do with it, or were you referring to the power supply inside the amplifier?
your post gave me a glimpse of hope for the amplifier.
Most PC supplies have the output negative grounded to earth ground,it's not a 'floating' output,so you have to keep that in mind when using them. That shouldn't necessarily cause a problem though. The "humming/buzzing" is odd,PC supplies are SMPS's,and shouldn't have any real 60Hz noise to them. Maybe it's a beat frequency between the PC SMPS,and the amp's internal SMPS. Hard to say.
I'd suggest taking a look at the amp,perhaps a ground trace has melted,or the ground(s) on the RCA jacks are open.
Either way,something doesn't seem right.
I'd suggest taking a look at the amp,perhaps a ground trace has melted,or the ground(s) on the RCA jacks are open.
Either way,something doesn't seem right.
well the humm or buzz was so bad that i bought a new power supply for the computer because i didnt want to listen to it.. mainly for my animals with sensitive ears.
when i read what the noise was about.. i came to the conclusion that it was the torroidal coil.
and yeah, i used a paper towel roll to determine that the torroidal coil was making noise.
i read a suggestion that said to put some glue on the coil to hush it up, but that didnt work.
ah yes,
'seems'
the essence of electronic circuitry.. i'd love to see this amplifier repaired with something as simple as a trace that over-heated.
i saved about 50% when i bought this amp.. and i never have been able to use it yet.
so i'd like to get it fixed.
besides.. my jl audio 12w7 requires a hefty hefty amount of power, so i really sorta need this amplifier.
thanks for all the replies.
Hmm.. with all your description, I will highly suspect its an amp prob. Without seeing it, I wouldnt know but I am guessing its the output side, some capacitor or resistor or transitor burnt out.
Dont ever try to connect this amp to some speaker again.
Most amp can be repaired for a reasonable cost, go to your local ICE installers and ask if they have anyone in mind to help out. Worst case, go to hifonics for a quote before you decide.
Dont ever try to connect this amp to some speaker again.
Most amp can be repaired for a reasonable cost, go to your local ICE installers and ask if they have anyone in mind to help out. Worst case, go to hifonics for a quote before you decide.
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