Greek people told about some proportion, some golden rule that made relationship between length and high...some rules.
I could see awfull equipments because the names printed on them were too much big.
Do you have a formula, an idea to help me to understand that?
I know that slim units looks good for several folks, but not for all them.... i think how tall is the feet, if that support is visible or not, the button shape and the panel shape..some mixing of circles and squares...
Are there some tricks?.... maybe people has study that stuff.... what we think is good...is the simetrical shape?...... must be black?.... gray?
Are there emphatic colours...something that call atention (yellow?)
Post your contributions.
I really need to post that stupid question, as i am entirelly and completelly unable to make pretty things...i use to do and them i hate the result.. looks heavy, massive... strange.
regards,
Carlos
I could see awfull equipments because the names printed on them were too much big.
Do you have a formula, an idea to help me to understand that?
I know that slim units looks good for several folks, but not for all them.... i think how tall is the feet, if that support is visible or not, the button shape and the panel shape..some mixing of circles and squares...
Are there some tricks?.... maybe people has study that stuff.... what we think is good...is the simetrical shape?...... must be black?.... gray?
Are there emphatic colours...something that call atention (yellow?)
Post your contributions.
I really need to post that stupid question, as i am entirelly and completelly unable to make pretty things...i use to do and them i hate the result.. looks heavy, massive... strange.
regards,
Carlos
Esthetics.....
" Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Often times this has been quoted, and it is very true. What one will find great looking will look gawd-awful to most others. There are indeed some basic rules to follow.Lets make some rules here and now.
Color: The prevailing color today is black...some call it "The black death", totally uninspiring, looks Ok if it is sequestered in a rack somewhere in a Radio Stations equipment rack...but downright ugly in the Home. Deep blues, some Silver brushed Aluminum, Wooden cases or trim, Pewter, Nickel, some Acrylic clear. Beware of bright colors, except for guitar amps.
Fit and finish: There is a saying in the automotive business, "Looks good at ten feet" Translation" don't look too close" The finish MUST be perfect way up close.
If you can see imperfections with your nose up to it, others will too.
Symmetry: Perfect symmetry can be overdone...perfect left to right can look too orderly...looking like a shrine or pyramidal in structure, spacings must be broken up by asymmetry within say a control panel.
Height to Width to Depth is going to be rather standardized as you don't want your prized component to look out of place within your other audio components.
Do NOT use different shaped and sized Knobs...this looks goofy, keep Knobs the same for classes of functions, differing knobs for other classes of functions.
Look up the front face of a Marantz 2285B, and an old series Yamaha Receiver. The Yamaha has a great case of "Knob malfunction".All different shape knobs...too busy. The Marantz is downright classy.
For clean looks try the Harmon Kardon 730 Receiver. The Carver "The receiver" MXR-130 is a great case of excellent esthetics.
_______________________________________________________Rick...
" Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
Often times this has been quoted, and it is very true. What one will find great looking will look gawd-awful to most others. There are indeed some basic rules to follow.Lets make some rules here and now.
Color: The prevailing color today is black...some call it "The black death", totally uninspiring, looks Ok if it is sequestered in a rack somewhere in a Radio Stations equipment rack...but downright ugly in the Home. Deep blues, some Silver brushed Aluminum, Wooden cases or trim, Pewter, Nickel, some Acrylic clear. Beware of bright colors, except for guitar amps.
Fit and finish: There is a saying in the automotive business, "Looks good at ten feet" Translation" don't look too close" The finish MUST be perfect way up close.
If you can see imperfections with your nose up to it, others will too.
Symmetry: Perfect symmetry can be overdone...perfect left to right can look too orderly...looking like a shrine or pyramidal in structure, spacings must be broken up by asymmetry within say a control panel.
Height to Width to Depth is going to be rather standardized as you don't want your prized component to look out of place within your other audio components.
Do NOT use different shaped and sized Knobs...this looks goofy, keep Knobs the same for classes of functions, differing knobs for other classes of functions.
Look up the front face of a Marantz 2285B, and an old series Yamaha Receiver. The Yamaha has a great case of "Knob malfunction".All different shape knobs...too busy. The Marantz is downright classy.
For clean looks try the Harmon Kardon 730 Receiver. The Carver "The receiver" MXR-130 is a great case of excellent esthetics.
_______________________________________________________Rick...
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If you do a search on golden ratio there is quite amount of info. It is difficult to mentally conceptualize how the ratios interact. Usually a small model with scale parts help me in layout. If you take 3 different tubes with different diminutions and space them equal apart the do not look right. Color too cannot be taken for granite, there has been much study in the advertising industry on emotional response to color and shape. Again modeling is how I sometimes come to my conclusion. More often it is what is left in the cans in the cabinet you can never go wrong with black, and textured paint hides a lot of sins. For face plateds I have been using wood, you can sculpt them easier than metal, combing different woods is not to difficult. Laser etching an inlaying for greater effect is within our grasps.
Bill
Bill
If I were to ask you how to get good at building sweet sounding SS circuits what would you tell me? I'm sure just about everybody would say the only way to really know is to jump in and just start doing it.
If the focus is solely on getting things connected electrically then how it looks will be a reflection of that. If you want to shift your focus the very best thing to do is make time where you play ONLY with form for a while.
Get some different kinds of adhesives - couple kinds of glue, couple kinds of tape, some string, paper, cardboard, plastic from yogurt containers or 2 litre pop bottles etc, any sort of materials you can have fun with and start building forms. At first you might feel like a fish out of water and think you need direction or a plan but just fool around a little and you'll start to see things in what you're making. The problem isn't so much of learning all the rules that people before you made up as it is one of getting your perception to shift its involvement with circuits to a more visual and physical involvement with forms.
If you really get stuck then start with a shoebox, cut a couple of cm off one end of both the bottom and top and put the ends back on. Close the box and see how the change looks and what the feel of it is. Then do it again, and then again, and then again . . . until the box is as short as you can get it. Watch your perception of the box change as you go through the half way point etc.
Then build cardboard houses/floor-plans with the walls and stuff like that. (Even toy cars or models of hot babes!)
Make the ideal basic forms too - pyramid, cube , sphere and so on. Also pay more attention to forms as you walk through your house and other environments. Then you'll start seeing how form feels and begin to recognize your own gut responses to them. Notice also how the surface texture of a form changes the impact of it.
Try moving a collection of small objects like pebbles around on a table top until you get them into pleasing arrangements where the spaces between them are as important to the arrangement as the objects themselves.
It might be hard to get into because the whole time you're thinking "I don't want to build cardboard ****, I want to build a beautiful Amp!" but if you can put aside the drive to produce a finished product, take your time and just have fun for a while I guarantee you it really will help.
Interesting stuff, your opinions about, dear folks...some of them awsome, unexpected
different points of view...different analists.
Good that, thank you very much.
Continue to post your ideas here, they are almost unbeliavable, some are product/result of our modern days..other are ancient and seems was generated/created into the dawn of civilization.
Some seems that came from "Collective Unconscious", the Yung psicho social. a subject of psychosocial knowledge area.
Carlos
different points of view...different analists.
Good that, thank you very much.
Continue to post your ideas here, they are almost unbeliavable, some are product/result of our modern days..other are ancient and seems was generated/created into the dawn of civilization.
Some seems that came from "Collective Unconscious", the Yung psicho social. a subject of psychosocial knowledge area.
Carlos
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imo it's about avoiding overused patterns.
For a simple example there is photography. Most people when given a camera and told to take a picture of a sunset will take the picture with the horizon located in the very center of the picture. This just looks too obvious.
Someone who has taken a class or 2 on photography will tend to put the horizon 1/3 of the way from the top or the bottom. This looks better but to the art lover or an artist this looks overused and therefore is a cliche.
Someone who has taken a painting class or an architecture class might put the horizon (provided they have a nice guide or can crop to it) on the golden section of the top or the bottom of the frame. And maybe to someone picky like me this will look like a cliche but to most anyone it seems to be "just right".
All three are a cliche at this point, but what isn't? They are a cliche because they are effective. It's all about what you do with it. You can come up with your own ratios/guides that deviate from these with computers and I think you can get just as much of an effect out of them. Avoiding the overused and obvious ones. Basically if it looks bad to you then don't do that.
For a simple example there is photography. Most people when given a camera and told to take a picture of a sunset will take the picture with the horizon located in the very center of the picture. This just looks too obvious.
Someone who has taken a class or 2 on photography will tend to put the horizon 1/3 of the way from the top or the bottom. This looks better but to the art lover or an artist this looks overused and therefore is a cliche.
Someone who has taken a painting class or an architecture class might put the horizon (provided they have a nice guide or can crop to it) on the golden section of the top or the bottom of the frame. And maybe to someone picky like me this will look like a cliche but to most anyone it seems to be "just right".
All three are a cliche at this point, but what isn't? They are a cliche because they are effective. It's all about what you do with it. You can come up with your own ratios/guides that deviate from these with computers and I think you can get just as much of an effect out of them. Avoiding the overused and obvious ones. Basically if it looks bad to you then don't do that.
Keep it simple and uncluttered I say, unless you have skills for screen printing on metals etc. No lettering is better than poorly applied lettering.
There are some wonderful enclosures available but very expensive, costa as much as all the amp parts
Maybe us DIY'ers should standardise are designs (PCB sizes etc) then we could make a modular amp and easily try new designs in the same enclosure.
Remember... a job doesn't have to be perfect "But it has to look it"
There are some wonderful enclosures available but very expensive, costa as much as all the amp parts
Maybe us DIY'ers should standardise are designs (PCB sizes etc) then we could make a modular amp and easily try new designs in the same enclosure.
Remember... a job doesn't have to be perfect "But it has to look it"
here is how it goes ....
for an amplifier pcb is critical ...for starts ...and for example the ideal pcb should be in three parts preferibly with
---- caps ( banks ) on board first pcb area ( for our power of amplifiers 50-60-100w)
---- outpout transistors in the midle area
---- all the small stuff ltp ccs vbe drivers in the third area
---- ccs should be close to the circuits related
---- rails kept as small is possible
---- ground too
---- decoupling + bypass as next to the outs possible
---- ltp with thermal coupling
---- zobel excluded to the binding post of the amplifier
---- no ground frame
---- star ground of course
---- proper trace thikness (related to the current )
---- proper trace proximity ( to avoid capacitance )
---- rounded corners
---- and as less parallel traces is possible .....
---- and of course all will look square and symmetric
now ....
---if you manage to do all this for a relativelly simple amplifier like the DX
---if you manage to do all that in a single leyer board
---if you manage to do that while keeping in mind on how to root the cables so they come out of the board in convinient areas so input cable meets the input plug very shortly ...then outpout cable meet the binding post also very closely
--- if you manage to reverse the design of the boards so they look symmetric regarding the topology of the amp .... which normaly is board -trafo- board looking from left to right
then yes you will end up with a pretty neat device in your hands also you may register as the god of design after that ....
no matter how hard i try it was never possible to keep all but all the rules in a single leyer pcb even for a very simple amp like the P3A
good luck uncle charly .... i will send some pictures of my latest box and constructions
kind regards sakis
for an amplifier pcb is critical ...for starts ...and for example the ideal pcb should be in three parts preferibly with
---- caps ( banks ) on board first pcb area ( for our power of amplifiers 50-60-100w)
---- outpout transistors in the midle area
---- all the small stuff ltp ccs vbe drivers in the third area
---- ccs should be close to the circuits related
---- rails kept as small is possible
---- ground too
---- decoupling + bypass as next to the outs possible
---- ltp with thermal coupling
---- zobel excluded to the binding post of the amplifier
---- no ground frame
---- star ground of course
---- proper trace thikness (related to the current )
---- proper trace proximity ( to avoid capacitance )
---- rounded corners
---- and as less parallel traces is possible .....
---- and of course all will look square and symmetric
now ....
---if you manage to do all this for a relativelly simple amplifier like the DX
---if you manage to do all that in a single leyer board
---if you manage to do that while keeping in mind on how to root the cables so they come out of the board in convinient areas so input cable meets the input plug very shortly ...then outpout cable meet the binding post also very closely
--- if you manage to reverse the design of the boards so they look symmetric regarding the topology of the amp .... which normaly is board -trafo- board looking from left to right
then yes you will end up with a pretty neat device in your hands also you may register as the god of design after that ....
no matter how hard i try it was never possible to keep all but all the rules in a single leyer pcb even for a very simple amp like the P3A
good luck uncle charly .... i will send some pictures of my latest box and constructions
kind regards sakis
Hi DX!
Yes very nice, & Amp will look very good!
Regards zeoN_Rider
Yes very nice, & Amp will look very good!
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Regards zeoN_Rider
This is DIY
Most of the time you do not get to "deisign" your case, instead you get get to put your circuits into whatever case you happen to have. Make faceplate look ok/ some text and LEDs maybe?
Sometimes the case is big enough to make everything look ok, other times you have to be creative to fit everything inside it. This is what makes most diy projects look diy- case is not perfect for the stuff inside it. But does it sound good?
Some people "design" and others "build." if you are going to be a "builder" you are not going to waste months of time looking for perfect dimensions, you are going to fit your boards and output devices into the closest thing you can get at the time and then you move on to the next project.
People here spend a lot of time worrying about things like capacitors, wire and rubber feet. Make/ construct/ "build" and and listen and then a year later rebuild with what you have learned.
Carlos is a builder, it is interesting that he asks this question. I hope because he has a good amp he wants to keep!
What case looks good? Years ago I liked blue/ yellow lights and a silver case; now its silver face and yellow or geen lights; but I have made a black case and like it too. Hard to say. Ideas of Sakis are for PCBs and cannot be complied with even for simple amplifiers- would take too much time; years making a pcb for 1 amp that may not sound good. Trade off.
My favorite enclosure so far is for the DX-
And old sansui and a new faceplate.
Sounds better than it looks.
But my metal/wood Krell looks good (to me) as well
Sometimes the "classic" chassis is appropriate but sometimes a new look fits. Still; hard to say.
Also don't focus on Front panel to exclude a nice back panel.
Use plastic to fill holes from old components.
Most of the time you do not get to "deisign" your case, instead you get get to put your circuits into whatever case you happen to have. Make faceplate look ok/ some text and LEDs maybe?
Sometimes the case is big enough to make everything look ok, other times you have to be creative to fit everything inside it. This is what makes most diy projects look diy- case is not perfect for the stuff inside it. But does it sound good?
Some people "design" and others "build." if you are going to be a "builder" you are not going to waste months of time looking for perfect dimensions, you are going to fit your boards and output devices into the closest thing you can get at the time and then you move on to the next project.
People here spend a lot of time worrying about things like capacitors, wire and rubber feet. Make/ construct/ "build" and and listen and then a year later rebuild with what you have learned.
Carlos is a builder, it is interesting that he asks this question. I hope because he has a good amp he wants to keep!
What case looks good? Years ago I liked blue/ yellow lights and a silver case; now its silver face and yellow or geen lights; but I have made a black case and like it too. Hard to say. Ideas of Sakis are for PCBs and cannot be complied with even for simple amplifiers- would take too much time; years making a pcb for 1 amp that may not sound good. Trade off.
My favorite enclosure so far is for the DX-
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And old sansui and a new faceplate.
Sounds better than it looks.
But my metal/wood Krell looks good (to me) as well
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Sometimes the "classic" chassis is appropriate but sometimes a new look fits. Still; hard to say.
Also don't focus on Front panel to exclude a nice back panel.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Use plastic to fill holes from old components.
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What about perspex?
Good evening,
I thought about building an amplifier enclosure (including psu and toroid) in perspex. It seems like a nice idea as it is cheap and not too difficult to cut etc...... However, is it rigid enough a material? (I think I'll buy 5mm thick) I am worried it would crack if I use too large panels....
However from what I have seen I think it is a good beauty trick and easier to work on than steel or thick aluminium.....
Geoff
Good evening,
I thought about building an amplifier enclosure (including psu and toroid) in perspex. It seems like a nice idea as it is cheap and not too difficult to cut etc...... However, is it rigid enough a material? (I think I'll buy 5mm thick) I am worried it would crack if I use too large panels....
However from what I have seen I think it is a good beauty trick and easier to work on than steel or thick aluminium.....
Geoff
Perspex (Plexiglass) is fine, but you need special tools to work it. Also, it would need to be very thick (and heavy) to support heavy items like transformers. As a faceplate, it can really turn out well, especially if you have access to an engraving laser. Now you're giving me ideas...
Also, it insulates well, which can be good for high voltage circuits, but it doesn't provide a safety ground either. Also, it doesn't like alcohol at all. And it can melt/soften/warp at higher temperatures, so keep it away from tubes and heatsinks.
Also, it insulates well, which can be good for high voltage circuits, but it doesn't provide a safety ground either. Also, it doesn't like alcohol at all. And it can melt/soften/warp at higher temperatures, so keep it away from tubes and heatsinks.
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