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Which IRS2092 modules?

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I’m going to build a 12-ch amp for my HT system.

My problem is deciding which of your many IRS2092 modules to use.

The only obvious differences to me are the form factors, storage cap sizes, and the extra features of the CxD250-HP (which I don't need).

I want about 150 W/ch @ 8 ohms, which gives me the following options in ascending order of $/channel:

- CxD300-8R $33/ch 35x95x35 mm Connexelectronic

- ScalD_Amp $50/ch dimensions? Connexelectronic

- ScalD_Amp2 $53/ch 100x100x42 mm Connexelectronic

- CxD250-HP $89/ch dimensions? Connexelectronic

Are there any significant sound quality difference between these?

If not, what accounts for the price differences?

Also, I need advice on what to do about speaker protection.

I was going to use your protection modules but am unsure what to do after reading this:

This question is answered once every 100 pages of this thread or so. The gist of it is, as spelled out in sections 7.2 and 8.1 of the data sheet, use a supply that shuts down when pin 5 of the power connector is pulled low. This pin is pulled low when the NC400 finds the speaker output stuck at a high voltage.

The SMPS600 has this function. If, for reasons of philosophy*, you want to build your own linear supply, add disconnect relays between it and the power amp and make them respond to this line.

DO NOT USE SPEAKER RELAYS. Speakers are inductive little buggers and will sustain an arc across the relay contact long enough for it to weld shut. Speaker relays CAN AND WILL FAIL at the exact moment that you need them.

_____________________

*Reasons of philosophy such as "not believing a switching supply sounds good and therefore concocting a linear contraption and then complaining about the result" ;)

Do the IRS2092 modules include similar protection?

Thanks very much
 
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For your purpose I recommend to use CxD300-8R modules Connexelectronic basic version, 200W 8R. These modules have all the basic protections such as under-voltage, over-voltage, over-temperature, over-current and short circuit, but not the DC protection with relay disconnect for speakers. This protection can be implemented outside of the board, either with a classic speaker protection circuit using a high breaking current/voltage relay able to safely break 50-60V at 10A without welding its contacts or even with solid state relay (version "under construction") which is able to break higher voltages without any risk of failure.
The power supply which will be available for the CxD250-HP will have the option of quick-disconnect in case of DC failure on one or both of the outputs. Other modules powered from this SMPS will be protected too, so the use of the classic speaker protection circuit along with any IRS2092 based amplifier when powered from that SMPS will become redundant.
IRS2092S IC have
 
OK, I will order 12 of theCxD300-8R modules.

The data sheet

http://www.alliedelec.com/images/products/datasheets/bm/AROMAT/70158573.pdf

for the relays in your SPC1 show that they're only rated for 5A.

Can you supply them with the 10A JW1FSN-DC12V?

Other questions related to construction:

One of the layout options is to put all twelve modules next to each other, but they will barely fit in the case; is it OK for the heat sinks to contact each other?

Do the modules come with a wiring diagram?

I see the PCB has labels, but I'd rather not guess, as I'm not really an electronics person.

For example, is GND for both chassis and signal, or should they be isolated?

Do you know the part number for a plug to match the white 3-pin connector modules?

Thanks very much
 
A 5A rated relay can be used for several hundred Watts since the average current of such amplifier which pass through relay is less than 5A, only the short term peaks are exceeding the 5A rating. Relays have been used to protect speakers since 20-30 years or even more and yet the failure rate of the relay itself is much smaller than the rest of the circuit.
As option, 16A single pole relays can be used. but this turns each speaker protection circuit board into single channel. for 150-200W at 8R the actual relays are enough.
The CxD300-8R board size is just 35x95mm. you can install 6 modules one next to the other on two rows, with few mm space between them for a minimum air flow, this will give an overall size of approx. 250x200mm for all the amplifier modules, then the power supply can be installed next to the amplifier modules, having the size of 120x200mm, will fit into a standard rack unit case or even smaller. Mounting holes for the amplifier modules are already isolated from GND to avoid GND loops and the wiring for power supply and signal input is straight-forward. The CxD300-8R comes with connector and cable for the signal input and 2 pcs terminal block for the power and speaker output module.

In fact, ALL the modules which We sell come either with matched connector, cable, plug, terminal block, or whatever is needed for installing without the user need to search or purchase separately any of these cables. Perhaps I must clearly state this for every product. My mistake is that I don't state very clear this aspect, but I believe that the feeling on the user side is better than what he feels when he order from other vendors which state that they provide interconnection sometimes as a "gift" but often "forget" to send it.
 
With 50VDC PS my speakers will draw 8A, and combined with the inductive effect, leaves me a bit worried.

I'll look for some protectors with bigger relays.

I wanted to line up all of the modules along the back of the case to keep input and speaker wiring shorter, but I guess it's not that important.

I'm glad to hear that connectors are included, that makes it a lot easier.

Thanks
 
Unless you gonna use the amplifier and the speaker to listen sine waves or square waves, I see no reason to worry about the current rating of the relay. With a crest factor of 1/8, and max. 1/3 of music, that 8A are in fact 1A average or 2.66A max. average.

The modules can be arranged all in line as well, but the overall width will be around 45 to 48cm, if they are spaced 2-4 mm. The boards are built in panels of 2 identical modules, with the size of 74.5x95mm, and they are cutted to individual modules after assembly. If you want I can provide uncutted boards, so you can install them more easily.
 
The concern isn't the operating current, in case of amp module failure that would put PS voltage directly to the speaker.

The case internal width is 430 mm, not enough for 6 x 74.5, but I'll keep that in mind for layout studies.

Is it OK for the heat sinks of adjacent modules to touch each other?
 
Cristi,

You didn't say anything about an explicit wiring diagram, so I suppose I have to guess.

Are the connections correctly labeled in the below picture?

What is Mu...?

Does any part of the module or SMPS get connected to chassis ground?
 

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The connections are fairy simple, same as you indicate in the picture above, there are two connectors only, one have 5 pins, Speaker output, GND, V-, GND, V+ and the other connector has 3 pins, Input, GND and Mute. by default the amplifier is set to operate mode, and connecting the Mute pin to GND will mute the amp. The mute to operate has a delay of ~ one second, to allow the amplifier to operate normally without any click-pop noise.
 
Cristi,

The description of the CxD250-HP says it has "audiophile sound quality", which it doesn't say in the descriptions of the CxD300-8R.

Does it really sound better?

If so then I might consider using three of the CxD250-HP for the front speakers.

Can you (or anyone) say how the sound of your modules compares to any of the Hypex ones?
 
CxD250-HP have some improvements compared with the rest of the modules, carefully designed layout after several attempts which each adressed some particular issues, best FOM DirectFET transistors used, with low gate charge/RdsON ratio, critically damped snubbers and tight dead-time selection, all which allows an exceptional sound with high efficiency. These modules can be used without any heatsink up to ~150W or up to 250W if the modules are installed on the housing bottom with thermal interface material in between for best heat transfer.

I don't have any Hypex module, (I couldn't buy them here in china or elsewhere) so I could not compare them. But I guess for a well trained ear there will be some differences at least because of the topology used, Hypex are post-filter feedback which allows them to be very transparent, while IRS2092 based amps are all pre-filter which add some color especially at the high frequency spectrum and because of this the pre-filter amps are preferred by many users against post-filter amps. and I'm not talking just about hypex vs. IRS2092 but about any post-filter vs. pre-filter amp, many pre-filter amps being fully integrated amps like Ti's PurePath TAS5630 or NXP TDA8950 or driver+MOSFET like IRS2092 or even Tripath. You might have noticed some debates between Tripath (pre-filter) and Hypex (post-filter) supporters about which one sounds better. I think similar situation will be if compare Hypex with IRS2092 solution.
 
Board sixe for CxD250-HP same as CxD400, 50x100mm and the height around 25mm with the heatsink installed. The boards come with the heatsink, in the picture I removed the heatsink of one of the boards to see what's under.
Idle power loss is around 3.4-4W for each channel, with the current DT setting. DT dependent. Separate supply rails are used for preamp section and driver section, not derived from the main supply rails like other modules.
The power supply will be able to supply all these necessary voltages and will be a direct plug&play for them.
 
Separate supply rails are used for preamp section and driver section, not derived from the main supply rails like other modules.

Can the +/-12V of the SMPS2000R be increased to supply the needed voltages?



Idle power loss is around 3.4-4W for each channel, with the current DT setting.

Yes, I saw that; I was asking about the CxD300-8R.
Cristi,
- What is the idle dissipation of each CxD300-8R with 52V?


Thanks for the other answers.
 
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"Can the +/-12V of the SMPS2000R be increased to supply the needed voltages?" Yes, theoretically few standard voltages can be chosen, like +-5V, +-12V +-15V and +-24V. the auxiliary supply use linear regulators such as LM78xx series. they can provide up to 500mA although some linear regulators can provide up to 1.5A but 500mA is conservative value to avoid excessive power dissipation.

CxD300-8R idle power dissipation is around 4W for 200W 8R version and around 6W for 300W 8R version. note that the minimum supply voltage must be around +-56V for 200W version and +-68V for 300W version. The board has under-voltage and over-voltage protection to avoid any possible issues caused by supply voltage out of range. It also has over-temperature and over-current protection, which I consider that are absolute necessary protections for any class D amplifier module, no matter that it cost 500 $ or 12 cents.
 
"Can the +/-12V of the SMPS2000R be increased to supply the needed voltages?" Yes, theoretically few standard voltages can be chosen, like +-5V, +-12V +-15V and +-24V. the auxiliary supply use linear regulators such as LM78xx series. they can provide up to 500mA although some linear regulators can provide up to 1.5A but 500mA is conservative value to avoid excessive power dissipation.

What about in practice?

Can you provide SMPS2000R with the proper voltage to drive three CxD250-HP?

I won't be using the auxiliary voltage for anything else.

I would think that I'm not the only one who would want this.

I would like to order soon if we can get these questions resolved.

How much time will the Chinese holiday add to the process?

Thanks
 
Practice ? Tell me what voltages you need and I can tell you if can be done.
Yes, can be done, +-54V version should be chosen for the main output and write a note for +-15V aux. I'll get the Vbias using a separate power supply.

Now is chinese national day holiday, and will last till end of the week. starting from next monday the things will slowly get back to normal.
 
Yes, can be done, +-54V version should be chosen for the main output and write a note for +-15V aux. I'll get the Vbias using a separate power supply.

I'm not sure I understand; do you mean a PS separate from the SMPS2000R, or just another component you'll add to it?

If an additional PS is needed for the CxD250-HP's, I need the dimensions so I can work on the case layout, and its cost.

My order will consist of:

1. qty 3 CxD250-HP

2. qty 8 CxD300-8R

3. qty 1 SMPS2000R +/-54V, +/-15 VDC auxiliary

4. qty 1 CW2C-10A-T IEC connector (please, what are the cutout dimensions?)

5. qty 6 SPC speaker protector with 10A JW1FSN-DC12V

6. Additional PS? although if this is needed to supply what CxD250-HP's need, I guess you don't need to bother changing the SMPS2000R to +/-15V).


If the SMPS2000R can supply the CxD250's auxiliary voltages, is there any problem also using it to supply the six SPC1's and a small front panel LED?

I've seen many posts about problems with your email, so maybe it's best to do as much of the order here as possible, or is it working tOK now?

Thanks
 
Ok, let me try to explain:

Every class D amplifier needs at least few supply voltages. a main differential supply voltage for SE power stages, high current, medium voltage (+-25 to +-100+ V) then a driver stage supply voltage in range of 10V to 15V at 50mA to 0.5A depending on the amplifier rated power, referenced to V- and a single or dual supply voltage for the preamplifier, comparator, modulator, and other small signal stages, in range of 5V to 15V single or dual.
Most of the amplifiers which I built have house-keeping power supply circuits which supply this voltages derrivated from the main power stage voltages, more or less efficient, using linear regulators or switching regulators (buck converters). both have advantages and disadvantages, they are far from perfect. linear regulators are less noisy, but waste power, and switching regulators add noise which have to be filtered somehow, and this in turn leads to increased complexity.

With CxD250-HP I tried to get rid of all the disadvantages mentioned above, obtain a high performance, high efficiency and low noise amplifier, regardless of complexity. So I chose to supply all the voltages from external independent sources. the dedicated power supply for CxD250-HP which will be available soon, will provide all these necessary voltages.

My observation regarding the extra power supply was for the driver stage supply voltage. SMPS2000R aux. output will supply the input stage voltage, +-15V and the speaker protection circuits will be supplied from the additional small power supply used for driver stage as well, but with isolated output, not common with the speaker protection boards.

My email is working relatively fine in the recent weeks, but I wont be surprised to have issues again anytime soon. the reason I believe is the large number of mails received and sent every day, but I don't exclude some malware as well, I had to re-install wingoz last week after a serious system crash. I use to read and reply mails on few computers, at work, home, on my laptop and mobile devices for urgent ones.
 
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