Sorry about the offtopic response...
For Tripathi's sake I just hope for a new investor. (like a large car company using it for a lot of in-board audio systems, or installation companies want to use it for large background music systems in shops and other large accomodations...)
For the DIYer I hope the technology stays available I personally won't care much for the nameprint on the IC, I only care about the performance...no matter if it's caused by 'high out-of-band noise of Tripath IC' or not...
And I can bear'em almost 24/7... and proving it...
For Tripathi's sake I just hope for a new investor. (like a large car company using it for a lot of in-board audio systems, or installation companies want to use it for large background music systems in shops and other large accomodations...)
For the DIYer I hope the technology stays available I personally won't care much for the nameprint on the IC, I only care about the performance...no matter if it's caused by 'high out-of-band noise of Tripath IC' or not...
And I can bear'em almost 24/7... and proving it...
high resolution
So high res is the ability to reproduce simultaneously a strong signal and a weak signal. I believe that has to do with no crossover distortion that plagues class AB amps, also the absence of "crowding-out" distortion of class AB amps using bipolar transistors with low Ft cut-off frequency.
Indeed Tripath amps don't have crossover distortion and crowding-out, due to sigma-delta modulation, and for the money, they're unbeatable for DIY Audiophiles.
So high res is the ability to reproduce simultaneously a strong signal and a weak signal. I believe that has to do with no crossover distortion that plagues class AB amps, also the absence of "crowding-out" distortion of class AB amps using bipolar transistors with low Ft cut-off frequency.
Indeed Tripath amps don't have crossover distortion and crowding-out, due to sigma-delta modulation, and for the money, they're unbeatable for DIY Audiophiles.
There are two advantages to delta-sigma:
1.) It generates astonishingly low IMD which does of course help when it comes to the reproduction of choirs orchestras etc.
2.) The NFB loop is less susceptible to switching noise, overshoots etc than PWM for instance.
And Tripath amps are delta-sigma amps. There is not that much magic around their modulation scheme. It was just hyped up a lot by themselves even before they had a marketable product at all. The latter is what I personally don't like about this company and NOT the products themselves.
Apart from that: they should have made attempts to take NFB after the output filter or at least offer the choice to the designer to do so.
Regards
Charles
1.) It generates astonishingly low IMD which does of course help when it comes to the reproduction of choirs orchestras etc.
2.) The NFB loop is less susceptible to switching noise, overshoots etc than PWM for instance.
And Tripath amps are delta-sigma amps. There is not that much magic around their modulation scheme. It was just hyped up a lot by themselves even before they had a marketable product at all. The latter is what I personally don't like about this company and NOT the products themselves.
Apart from that: they should have made attempts to take NFB after the output filter or at least offer the choice to the designer to do so.
Regards
Charles
fokker said:
fokker said:
In which in both cases it surely applies to you too!
So what makes what you hear right and others so wrong?
If your best shot to my liking the sound of my Tripath amp is that I hear 'wrong' and am therefore deceived, then so be it.
Does seem awfully like some of the clap-trap persued by Linn Products back in the 80's when if you didn't buy Linn or Naim you were mentally disabled or such like.
Are you a flat-earther by chance Fokker?
No insult intended.
Re: Re: high resolution
Wonderful synthesis. I would add the dynamic extension. Take Mahler, for instance, he plays a lot with this. If you set the volume to live level with weakest sounds, then most amps clip when it comes loudest sounds of the big orchestra (live orchestras can go more than 100 db). My Tripath amps clip too, but much, much less than others, so that I can reach honourable compromises with music from Wagner to Stravinsky.
Always a pleasure to learn from you. So delta-sigma is the point: is this different from other class-D amps?
What are technical differences between Tripath and UCD? (I don't understand well NFB loop VS PWM is this?).
koolkid731 said:
Wonderful synthesis. I would add the dynamic extension. Take Mahler, for instance, he plays a lot with this. If you set the volume to live level with weakest sounds, then most amps clip when it comes loudest sounds of the big orchestra (live orchestras can go more than 100 db). My Tripath amps clip too, but much, much less than others, so that I can reach honourable compromises with music from Wagner to Stravinsky.
phase_accurate said:
Always a pleasure to learn from you. So delta-sigma is the point: is this different from other class-D amps?
What are technical differences between Tripath and UCD? (I don't understand well NFB loop VS PWM is this?).
I used Tripath amps for almost a year before I recently burned one out. My setup was a bi-amp situation using an electronic crossover. I fed the amps with excellent, over-spec Tamura SMPSs, the outputs of which I bypassed with teflon capacitors (several uF), including some air core inductance.
I installed fluorinert (better than teflon) capacitors on the inputs of the amps, and super-conditioned the AC to the SMPSs (my little obsession).
Speakers were highly resolving homebuilds using Aurum ribbons on top and 4" AudioTechnology mid-woofers on the bottom, supplemented by a sub.
The sound was *shockingly* good---best I've heard in many respects, and this though I had yet to place decent (non-mylar) capacitors in the output filter and was sloppy about wiring and EMI radiation to god knows everywhere, including into the input signal. Tonal purity was to die for ... I've never heard anything like it. Air and transient attack suffered the class D syndrome for class D is becoming famous, but I didn't find this fault overly bothersome.
I installed fluorinert (better than teflon) capacitors on the inputs of the amps, and super-conditioned the AC to the SMPSs (my little obsession).
Speakers were highly resolving homebuilds using Aurum ribbons on top and 4" AudioTechnology mid-woofers on the bottom, supplemented by a sub.
The sound was *shockingly* good---best I've heard in many respects, and this though I had yet to place decent (non-mylar) capacitors in the output filter and was sloppy about wiring and EMI radiation to god knows everywhere, including into the input signal. Tonal purity was to die for ... I've never heard anything like it. Air and transient attack suffered the class D syndrome for class D is becoming famous, but I didn't find this fault overly bothersome.
GJF said:
if that's the best you could gather after this, I am not sure any purpose it serves to continue this discussion with you.
No insult intended.
However, I do want to make a point clear to you: I never said that you hear 'wrong'.
what I said is that what you *think* you heard *may* not be what you heard. Emphasise added to help comprehension.
So if we *think* what we hear *may* not be what we hear, and you hear what you *think* you hear is absolutely, without a doubt *correct*, why do you bother with us?
Wouldn't your time be better spent somewhere's else where people who hear *correctly* hang out and instead of the "Class D" Forum?
Wouldn't your time be better spent somewhere's else where people who hear *correctly* hang out and instead of the "Class D" Forum?
Oh c'mon fellas, this is part of the fun, the philosophy behind what we CAN and CANNOT hear.
I've judged many systems to sound great that measured pretty bad, for instance some tube amps shown pretty nasty distortion in measurements but sounded even more beautifull by this...
I don't really care if a circuit has measurable or 'theoretically' awfull specs, I only care about what it does to my ears and brain....
That's why I love chips, call it my weakness I don't design discrete amps....to sound 'right'....I'm glad Tripath did it, for people like me...
I've judged many systems to sound great that measured pretty bad, for instance some tube amps shown pretty nasty distortion in measurements but sounded even more beautifull by this...
I don't really care if a circuit has measurable or 'theoretically' awfull specs, I only care about what it does to my ears and brain....
That's why I love chips, call it my weakness I don't design discrete amps....to sound 'right'....I'm glad Tripath did it, for people like me...
Yes, everybody is silly, bar you Fokker.
Why the mind games?
what you *think* you heard *may* not be what you heard
How do you know what I hear?
You don't of course, so you need to instill the idea that for some unknown reason I, and a good deal of others, are in some way deluding ourselves into believing that the piles of trash we listen to are in fact the most wonderful bits of kit in the world.
Seems to me you think we are all worshiping the ''emperor's new clothes'', which is amusing.
Ah well, I choose to remain a poor ignorant fool.
Why the mind games?
what you *think* you heard *may* not be what you heard
How do you know what I hear?
You don't of course, so you need to instill the idea that for some unknown reason I, and a good deal of others, are in some way deluding ourselves into believing that the piles of trash we listen to are in fact the most wonderful bits of kit in the world.
Seems to me you think we are all worshiping the ''emperor's new clothes'', which is amusing.
Ah well, I choose to remain a poor ignorant fool.
Probably it's hard to say, tripath amps have good or poor sound, due to perception and terminology subjectivity mostly, but easy to see that formal specs of the tripath data sheets is worse, and far away from the others class D or AB amps, so it's a little bit silly if around 10 years TRPHE still sings about "Digital revolution". BTW, much more stupid class D amps (vs tripath amps, which class D obviously too, class T just a trade mark) does exist, therefore I see nothing good or funny if TRPHE will die, but these nuts class D still alive.
IVX said:
Nice argument against your thesys. After 10 years, after new class-d amps with formal better specs, after the contempt of most audiophiles, the same, lot of people continue to build Tripath amps and discuss, opening the majority of threads here. Another sociological explaination is needed, because so many subjective errors and such a mood can't last for so many years.
I'd go back to the "resolution" topic of Tripath amps, that is far better than other, though not formally measured and compared. I just learned that sigma-delta modulation is involved, while other use PWM for ADC. What else?
I'd like to know if there are other amps with sigma-delta modulation. It would be an interesting comparison and, maybe, a good replacement, when Tripath will die for not having 0,00000000001 THD+N.
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