Trends Audio TA-10: Modding Potential? - Page 13 - diyAudio
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Old 15th January 2007, 07:21 AM   #121
dweekie is offline dweekie  United States
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Default Re: Re: Head to Head with Krell!

Quote:
Originally posted by dweekie


Did you compare the krell to the newest amp with sanyo 1500uf caps and bennic input caps? Or did you compare to the original or other modified designs? Either way, I'd expect the krell to perform much better, but I was just curious since you did make a very recent comparison.
Oh, I just saw your previous post that has all the specs.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...76#post1096976
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Old 15th January 2007, 10:33 AM   #122
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Default TA-10 vs. Krell

Hi,

The head to head was done to see how near or far an inexpensive T-Amp would be from a known reference. We did it because we could as I was visiting, and we knew how good the Krell was. I would love to try a brawnier class D amp, but having had a look around, the Hypex UCD modules seem to be the only ones that offer the sort of grunt to match 200WPC into 8 Ohms. Once you start upping the power, the price curve rises rapidly too. Maybe TA-2020 or UCD400 is the best bang for the buck????

Cheers

Jon
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Old 15th January 2007, 11:41 AM   #123
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or get some efficient speakers
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Old 15th January 2007, 04:04 PM   #124
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I connected a MIT z-cord II power cable to the PS of the trend....

This gives it more focus and sounds smoother.
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Old 15th January 2007, 08:42 PM   #125
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jonclancy,

Are you really shure your Trends are OK after the fire ? I would have expected them to be nearer to the Krell than 40-100 by my comparison. You would be listening a bit selective I think. But the 40 is of course a very subjective measure. To 'listen' to music I hold this amp high.

/Erling
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Old 15th January 2007, 09:21 PM   #126
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Hi!

The score of 40 is subjective, and was suggested by my brother in law - and I agreed with it when we discussed our listening experiences. It is his Krell, but I know he is not *that* biased!! I suppose it wasn't about what was there in the TA-10 presentation (lots of GOOD things!), but what wasn't there when compared to the Krell. There were elements of the Krell presentation that the TA-10 hinted at, but were delivered by the bigger amp with more control and timbre. For instance, the definite difference between a bass note "beat" and a kick drum or a cymbal that is presented in the mix, rather that separated by itself with the "atmosphere" around it. There is no doubt that 200 WPC available to the Krell plays a large part in all of this - even acknowledging the principle of the First Watt being the most important etc. The Krell would seem to "suck" the sound back when a bass note finished; the TA-10 had less grip. A good example is the deep notes at the end of David Gray's White Ladder Track 1 "Please Forgive Me". There is a definite clean cut end to a bass note, rather than a softer end to it.

As I said earlier, we found the mids and top end to be pretty good in comparison, and certainly no embarassment for the little amp.

Bottom line: I still think it's a great little amp and the sound is still 8+ / 10. The 40 Index to the Krells 100 doesn't mean the TA-10 only makes it to 40. Index 40, in this case, is a pretty good score. My Arcams I would only rate at around 30 - 35, and a pretty mid-fi offering such as my reasonable sounding (and award winning) Denon DM30 as around Index 15. The Krell is really a very nice amp - I have yet to hear 300b SET or the AX, though.

I hope this makes more sense of my earler post - I won't get a job writing audio reviews!!

Cheers

Jon
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Old 15th January 2007, 09:42 PM   #127
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jonclancy,

Thanks a lot for your comment. I don't have Krells or any other fancy stuff but I clearly remember one demo I had with the Krell and Sonus Faber Cremona speakers. In this demo Diana Krall stood out as nearly touchable by you. When playing the same record now at home with Trends TA-10 and B200 OBs I am in the very neigbourhood of the Krell/Cremona presentation. You can't really touch her but the way she stand out is simply great. By the way I also play the Trends in Amp-mode.

/Erling
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Old 21st January 2007, 10:18 AM   #128
jtaytay is offline jtaytay  United Kingdom
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Default bass lacking in TA10

I've got a couple of TA10s - I'm not a modder (yet) but was interested in this thread and there is one thing I want to improve with the TA10. I've currently got it hooked up to some Quad 11Ls - c. 86dB I think and I've tried it with speakers up to c.90dB, and the bass seems lacking. I haven't listened to the basic T amp for a while, so my memory may be fuzzy, but the TA seems to run out of steam in the bass as quickly as the basic did.

I love the mid and upper frequences, the sweetness of higher frequencies, detailing etc etc - and given my speakers are not the most sensitive, it sounds pretty good dynamically. It's just that bottom end. I even managed to hook it up to an active sub trough its speaker terminals and the lack of low frequencies passed to the sub was so noticeable, I initially thought I hadn't turned the sub on.

So, had a few questions:

1. What would the best mod/mods be to make the bass deeper and louder? Remember I'm a novice.
2. I used to run the basic T amp (unmodded) of a 13 Volt supply without ever frying a chip. Would it be just as safe, do you reckon, to do the same with the TA10?
3. Is the Super T much better in the bass and does it still have the sweetness of the TA10?

thanks

Chris
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Old 21st January 2007, 06:06 PM   #129
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Default Re: bass lacking in TA10

Hi Chris.

Quote:
Originally posted by jtaytay
but the TA seems to run out of steam in the bass as quickly as the basic did.
Not a chance! The TA-10 is much stronger in the bass for 2 reasons. Better power supply (onboard caps) and bigger input caps (2.2uF vs 0.3uF)

The 2 amps do use the same chip and you are running the same voltage, so you are starting at the same point, but the stock Sonic is quite bass shy.

Quote:
I love the mid and upper frequencies, the sweetness of higher frequencies, detailing etc etc - and given my speakers are not the most sensitive, it sounds pretty good dynamically. It's just that bottom end.
It's hard to get good bass out of a 6 watt amp. That's why this T-Amp/Triode school of Hi-Fi likes efficient speakers. You need to be in the mid 90s, even more is better. I have no lack of bass with my 4 ohm 95dB/2.83 volt speakers. In fact, I find the TA-10 to have more bass than some more powerful amps.

With lower efficiency speakers you will still get that sweet mid and high end you like, but you will miss the bass and the dynamics.

Quote:
I even managed to hook it up to an active sub trough its speaker terminals and the lack of low frequencies passed to the sub was so noticeable, I initially thought I hadn't turned the sub on.
I'm surprised it worked at all! Because of the "floating" speaker outputs of the Trends and Sonic, it's not a good idea to hook the speaker out to a sub amp. You might damage one or both. Sounds like you didn't, though. It's going to depend on the sub amp.


Quote:
1. What would the best mod/mods be to make the bass deeper and louder?
More efficient speakers.
But for the amp, a stronger power supply. That can mean adding caps inside the amp.

Quote:
2. I used to run the basic T amp (unmodded) of a 13 Volt supply without ever frying a chip. Would it be just as safe, do you reckon, to do the same with the TA10?
Safer. The TA-10 has better cooling. The Sonic has almost none.
Quote:
3. Is the Super T much better in the bass and does it still have the sweetness of the TA10?
Much better? Hmmm.... That's going to be system dependant, of course. I do find the Super-T better in bass and dynamics than the TA-10. But the difference is not huge, at least in my system. Remember, it's the same amp chip. Midrange and highs are much better on the TA-10.

Hope that answers some questions. Not to come down hard on you, but these little flea amps really need efficient speakers to shine. That's just the laws of physics.
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Old 21st January 2007, 06:31 PM   #130
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Now if only someone could do a comparison between the trend and the charlize....

My future plans are:

Charlize in a box with a good pot (PEC) or stepped attenuator .

Maybe a tubalizer?

Is it difficult to change the input caps and the power caps on the charlize? or is it trough the hole like the trend?
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