'nother noob Charlize question

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Hi all,

First post! I think I was in a cave the last couple of years. I didn't find out about this Sonic Impact T-Amp phenomenon until a month ago. I had to try it out, so I bought the Super T-Amp. I really like it. Later on, I learned my Onkyo TX-LR552 digital receiver had a Tripath chip in it also.

Anyway, I'd like to build a Charlize amp, but I'm not an electrical engineer. I recently started soldering together interconnects, so I'm still a noobie. Because the Charlize is mostlly built, I thought it would be a good starting point. I think I've read every post regarding the Charlize on the forum, but I don't understand most of it.

I have a few of questions so far. I hope you guys can help explain.

1. I know you can either install a potentiometer or connect it directly to rca jacks. I would like to do the direct to RCA jacks way. I was planning on getting an iPod Universal Dock. The dock's line out is variable. It's controlled by the volume adjustment on the iPod. I would like to hook this up to the Charlize in lieu of a preamp. Would this work? It seems like a great option because I can control the volume and music using a remote.

2. I've been reading a lot about SMPS. I'd like to get one. There was one that someone linked to on a thread.
http://cgi.ebay.com/150W-12V-DC-Pow...itemZ7584653342QQcategoryZ50940QQcmdZViewItem
It looks nice, but I have no idea how to hook this up to the charlize. The wall plug hooks up to the screw terminals labeled L N? Then one wire goes from the +V terminal of the SMPC to the 12VDC hole on the Charlize and another wire goes from the -V terminal to the GND hole on the Charlize? I've read that the SMPS will create a high frequency switching noise and to remedy this you should add a capacitor somewhere? I'm not exactly sure where it would go. I've also read that removing the capacitor will make the amp sound better? Am I comparing the same thing?

3. I understand the Charlize makes a popping noise when you turn it on. Is it really loud or would you just consider it a bit annoying?

Thank you!
 
Hi McRib,
The answers to your question....

1.) Yes it will work.
2.) Yes...The input a.c. supply to screw terminals labeled L N (since it is 'live', please be cautious!):att'n: The -Ve to the 'gnd' terminal. Don't remove anything.
3.) Follow the 'soft start' circuit to eliminate it.

:)
 
Thank you so much for the responses.

vt4c,
What do you mean by 'live?' If you mean that I might blow myself up, I do want to be very cautious. Just so I don't hook it up wrong, do you know what the L and N stand for. I'm getting very nervous now, hah!

JohnnyBoy,
My current speakers are 91db, so I hope I won't hear it very much. I have an older rotel integrated amp that kind of made a pop when I turned that on.
 
I've been reading a lot about SMPS. I'd like to get one. There was one that someone linked to on a thread..........

I've purchased 4 of those from emtel and they are nice quality supplies. I use all 4 of them in series to make a 28-0-28 12amp supply for 3 AMP-1B's.

They were only $15 each when I purchased them, looks like the price has almost doubled.

Also..... L = Live(white wire), N = Neutral(black wire)

inside.jpg
 
McRib:

One of the hardest things for noobs is to prioritize. Without experience, it's hard to know what's worth your attention.

As in most things, it's important to get your feet wet, improve your soldering skills, and worry about details later. My advice is just to hook it up so it works. Don't worry about the pot or the hf noise--just get sound out of it. Make sure your R & L RCA's are wired correctly and the amp drives your speakers. If the power supply is beyond you, start with a wall wart. In any case you need to figure out how to hook up a power supply to the Charlize pcb. You must have a VOM to test your work.

Once it's working, and you're enjoying music through it, I'd consider the following tweaks in this order:

1) The biggest change to Charlize came when I replaced the cerafine input coupling capacitors. There's a good thread on this somewhere. You'd get excellent results for a reasonable price with the Jantzens from Parts Express. Lowering the capacitance a step or two will also soften the turn-on popping sound.

2) The connection for headphone out of the ipod really attenuates the bass. If you take the true line out signal from a docking station (or pocketdock) you will get far better sound. Of course, now you are back in the situation of needing a pot to control volume.

3) Only after the first two tweaks would I consider experimenting with the power supply. Personally, I just use a salvaged (= free) computer power supply with the fan disabled (Charlize doesn't use enough power to generate much heat). Try the SMPS straight first. If you hear the HF noise, then look to tweak it.

Randy
 
theanonymous1,
Thank you for the picture. That is an amazing looking amp! How long ago did you buy the power supply? I can't believe they've gone up so much!

RtV,
Thank you for the advice. I do feel a bit lost in all the details. I will just try to get it working before I start tweaking it. Regarding the iPod connection. I was going to hook up the iPod through the lineout port of Apple's Universal Dock. It just so happens the lineout's output level is variable, so you can control the volume level through the iPod itself. Do you think the bass will be attenuated still?
 
McRib said:
[BRtV,
Thank you for the advice. I do feel a bit lost in all the details. I will just try to get it working before I start tweaking it. Regarding the iPod connection. I was going to hook up the iPod through the lineout port of Apple's Universal Dock. It just so happens the lineout's output level is variable, so you can control the volume level through the iPod itself. Do you think the bass will be attenuated still? [/B]

I don't know about the Apple Universal Dock. But I assume that the dock is getting the line out signal through the connector in the bottom, and then you attenuate it by using a knob on the dock--not though the ipod electronic interface. In that case it would be bypassing the headphone amplifiers and the bass problem.

Randy
 
Thank you for the picture. That is an amazing looking amp! How long ago did you buy the power supply? I can't believe they've gone up so much!

Thank you. That was my very first DIY amp project and also my very first time putting together any sort of PCB, let alone one with SMD work involved. All three amps worked the very first time to my amazement. I didn't even do any of the low powered fused testing thats recommended, I just flipped the switch and had them playing full volume.

I am a complete novice and wanted something more than a transformer based supply. I don't have the knowledge for a complex SMPS solution so I just used my simpletons approach and used 4 off the self units in series. I originally had a weird stability issue because of the large capacitors but eventually got it worked out by adding very low value 0.1R homemade resistors in series with the caps.

I dug through my old emails and it looks like I bought the supplies last July for $16.95 each. I clicked on the old ebay link and it brought up the current listing and they are now $34.95 each!!!! Thats some serious inflation. I don't think I would have bought 4 of them at that price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...sPageName=MERC_VIC_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT
 
Okay one important thing,

Do NOT hook up the GND on the Charlize to V-

Doing so might cause you to fry your Charlize. As far as I can tell, GND belongs to the FGND terminal on the SMPS. In any case, please measure with a multimeter first, the voltage difference btw V+ and FGND, and btw V+ and V-.
 
eVITAERC,
What should the GND on the Charlize be hooked up to? Should the GND be hooked up to the FG terminal of the power supply? (I guess that does make sense.) I'm a little confused though because on the Charlize site, it states, "Please note as TA2020 output stage is bridged, DO NOT tie them to GND." Also, when I measure the voltage difference, what am I supposed to be looking for?


The Anonymous1,
If you were a complete novice, what does that make me?! ;) The price for that Emtel PSU is getting ridiculous. I'm also thinking about getting this:
http://bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid...167&prodid=PWR1206&page=1&cri=PWR1206&stype=3
It was mentioned in an earlier thread. It seems to be a simpler, cheaper solution. It's also an SMPS. You just can't adjust the voltage.
 
Ahh thank you McRib, I've been trying to remember the name of that website for quite some time now.

The man in the brown uniform is delivering one of these to me today.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dell-Monitor-Po...ryZ31512QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

14v 3 amp switching supply. The specs look like a good match for these small tripath amps. I'll let you know how it works out later today.

If all you have is one Charlize then that 12 amp emtel supply would be a bit overkill anyways. It would work nice for a bi or tri amped setup though.

EDIT: I was just browsing bgmicro and found this supply, it looks promising....

http://bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid...238&prodid=PWR1209&page=1&cri=PWR1209&stype=3

Another......

http://bgmicro.com/prodinfo.asp?sid=0295983796296296244959238&prodid=PWR1221&page=3&cri=&stype=1
 
I just got through testing the DELL monitor supply I received today. Playing my modded T-amp to clipping with bass heavy music doesn't put a dent in the regulation in this supply. The output measures 14.1 on my Fluke and it just barely drops to 14.0 at full volume and even then its hards for the meter to decide whether it wants to display a .0 or a .1.

One thing to note, at very extreme clipping where I would never normally listen to the T-amp at, the amp starts to cut out. I've never had it do it with any other supply so my guess is that its the supply running out of current even though its still showing 14v on my meter. This isn't really a problem considering no one would ever listen to such extreme clipping.

As much as I like this supply I probably won't have it much longer. I need some cash so I'm going to put my micro T-amp in the trading post and offer this supply to go with it for an extra charge.
 
Onkyo TX-LR552

I am interested in how you found out the Onkyo TX-LR552 has the Tripath Chip(s) in it? Did you crack it open and look? I may consider picking one up if you are sure about it having "Tripath inside"!

I have a SI Amp, and I will be ordering a Charlize soon.

Thanks in advance.
 
I suspect it not with the power supply running out of current but rather Tripath chip tends to go into protection mode when connected to a higher supply voltage and/or driven lower impedance load.


theAnonymous1 said:
One thing to note, at very extreme clipping where I would never normally listen to the T-amp at, the amp starts to cut out. I've never had it do it with any other supply so my guess is that its the supply running out of current even though its still showing 14v on my meter. This isn't really a problem considering no one would ever listen to such extreme clipping.

 
Tripath07,
Oh my, I'm so embarassed! I was rereading the thread regarding the LR552 on AVSFORUM that I thought talked about the amp using a Tripath chip. Someone did crack it open and found it didn't! I'm sorry I gave out wrong information!

On a side note, the LR552 cost me $90. Less than my Super T-Amp and the same as the Charlize!

TheAnonymous1,
Thanks for the power supply links on BGMicro. They look like good alternatives to Emtel.
I'm starting to get cold feet though. I'm worried that if I get the Charlize, it's going to suck me into this time consuming world of DIY! I've started looking at the full range driver speakers and the DIY horn boxes. Now 'm getting really worried. I think I should just be happy with my Super T-Amp and be done with it!
 
McRib, Thanks for the quick response! Too bad it's not Class T. I would also be interested in your thoughts on the sound quality of the Onkyo TX-LR552, and if you really like the sound in 2 channel mode, ect. My other question is who's chip was in it? I'll guess TI.

I have an Onkyo receiver (TX-DS595) in my main surround sound system for dvd's, TV in the family room. So I like Onkyo, and I may still pick it up.

I have two Class T set-ups, the SI amp with the SI 2A SMPS. I am experimenting with 12V SLA batteries on the SI right now for the first time! The 3.3A battery I bought earlier today did not seem to have enough juice when compared to the SI 2A SMPS. I am on my way to exchange it for an 12V SLA 7A battery.

I also have the Virgin Electronic's Boomtube EX. It has two Class T chips powering it (40 total watts), and sounds the BEST (sweet)when it's running off of it's rechargeable Li- ion battery. I haven't cracked it open to see what chip(s) are in it, but I think it has a couple of the 2020 chips in there. It sounds great.

I will be getting a Charlize soon to replace the SI Amp. I am really looking forward to hearing Charlize with the Air Core inductors!

How do you like the Super T Amp?

Thanks again!
 
Well, I knew the sound was not right from the first 12V SLA battery. It sounded fuzzy, not clear or good. It was a "Werker" brand, and only 3.3 AH, which I found out was the amount of time the charge lasts. The first guy who helped me today did not know what he was talking about. So I switched brands to a "Power Sonic" brand battery, and went with a 7 AH 12v battery, which is twice as big. The sound was MUCH more what I expected my SI to sound like with a SLA 12V battery!

This one sounds great.
 
Tripath07 said:
McRib, Thanks for the quick response! Too bad it's not Class T. I would also be interested in your thoughts on the sound quality of the Onkyo TX-LR552, and if you really like the sound in 2 channel mode, ect. My other question is who's chip was in it? I'll guess TI.

I have an Onkyo receiver (TX-DS595) in my main surround sound system for dvd's, TV in the family room. So I like Onkyo, and I may still pick it up.

I have two Class T set-ups, the SI amp with the SI 2A SMPS. I am experimenting with 12V SLA batteries on the SI right now for the first time! The 3.3A battery I bought earlier today did not seem to have enough juice when compared to the SI 2A SMPS. I am on my way to exchange it for an 12V SLA 7A battery.

I also have the Virgin Electronic's Boomtube EX. It has two Class T chips powering it (40 total watts), and sounds the BEST (sweet)when it's running off of it's rechargeable Li- ion battery. I haven't cracked it open to see what chip(s) are in it, but I think it has a couple of the 2020 chips in there. It sounds great.

I will be getting a Charlize soon to replace the SI Amp. I am really looking forward to hearing Charlize with the Air Core inductors!

How do you like the Super T Amp?

Thanks again!


2 x TA2024......and a sod to modify!..dont bother cracking her open!
 
2 x TA2024......and a sod to modify!..dont bother cracking her open!

Thanks for the info! It is nice to know what's in there, and now I won't have to crack her open. I picked two brand new Boomtube EX's up on U-BID.com for $55 a piece about 6 months ago. A steal considering they went for $199 before Virgin Electronic's division went under. It has a wonderful sound running off the rechargeable Li-ion battery. I still have one Boomtube EX sealed in plastic in the unopened box.

What did you mean by "sod to modify"?

Thanks again!
 
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