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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

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Old 5th May 2006, 09:04 PM   #1
starn02 is offline starn02  Italy
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Thumbs up Multichannel T-Amp

Hey boys, what do you think about this one?
http://www.audiodigit.com/?section=84
and diY module http://www.audiodigit.com/index.php?section=90
Wow, 8 x 100w ! And a 4 channel too.

Multichannel T-Amps are finally coming out!
Are you aware of any alternatives?
Does anybody have experiences with them?
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Old 7th May 2006, 02:09 AM   #2
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Wow, that thing looks really interesting. Not a bad price either, 240 Euros....
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Old 7th May 2006, 03:30 AM   #3
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Sorry if the following words sound silly, but I would like to see more people involved in serious class D development from scratch, and less people flattering those switching chip amps that will be used in the next generation of $20 boom boxes, alarm clocks and PC speakers (as they were intended for that purpose from the beginning).
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Old 7th May 2006, 03:49 AM   #4
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Ok, yes Tripath did design these chips for specific applications. They designed the TA4100a chip (used in this design) for the car audio environment. Although, just because Tripath designed these chips for a specific purpose (cheap audio components), that does not mean that they sound bad. Yeah, there is better stuff out there in Class D world, but some people do not have a full understanding of how to design a Class D amp from scratch (like me). So, these types of amps make for a nice kit- an option besides mass market electronics.
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Old 7th May 2006, 06:45 AM   #5
starn02 is offline starn02  Italy
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Here we go again, another negative approach ....
I must confess that after seing many of such comments, including people who start by saying all the possible negative ... and the suddenly switch to completely positive after hearing things directly ... well, m really upset by those people who criticize things without direct esperience ... did you really hear any Tripath chip?

Maybe they were designed for "boom boxes", but take a look at those who use it (including Carver and Audio Research), to the success of T-Amps and tho all those people who are enthousiastic about the sound of T-Amps and derivatives ... are they all crazy or stupid?

I speak after buying such amps in the two channel version, being really happy with them (I'n not a beginner, I've been putting money in audio systems fro 25 years ...) and really thinking that if I can have the same sound quality in a multichannel system it could be really a giant leap with respect to commercial home theatre systems. That's all.

The only thing on which I agree with you, partially, is when you ask for developments from scratch.

Yes, we're writing on DIYAudio, so we should talk about self made systems.
But from what I see from this site MOST people are not capable of building things from scratch, most diyers just TWEAK commercial systems .... and here we have the option to buy a fully working board, then the need to wire it , or modify it .....

And for those who are unable to do even that there's the option to buy a fully assembled system.

So where is the problem? Just try to amuse yourself!
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Old 7th May 2006, 10:28 AM   #6
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Conventional linear chip-amps are far better than those switching ones and are much better suited for people with limited knowledge. Also, I don't consider swapping expensive components in commercial products as DIY, neither I think the fact of expending big money in audio for 25 years let alone could bring any knowledge (other than how to do bank transfers )

I would have never expected audiophiles to end up flattering the Tripath switching equivalents of the 2x15W TDA7375 linear amps used nowadays in most car radios.

Long life to gainclones, TDA3886, TDA7294 and the alike
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Old 7th May 2006, 10:36 AM   #7
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TDA7293 is nice too. Soft and nice sound.

Class D at all was intended for subwoofers.
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Old 7th May 2006, 11:00 AM   #8
Eva is offline Eva  Spain
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Class D is nice when properly implemented, and very handy for either battery operated or very high power applications.

However, it does not suit well for low-cost boom boxes due to design complexity and the requirement of two or more PCB layers, careful layout, ground planes, EMI analysis and filtering, SMD and other complex stuff. Currently, linear circuit designers are migrating to class D ICs forced by new market trends without being aware of the added complexity of switching circuits, and the result is poor product quality (and nice radio transmitters).

When you don't have the required knowledge and resources it's better to go linear (except if you want to learn the hard way like some of us )
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Old 7th May 2006, 03:05 PM   #9
starn02 is offline starn02  Italy
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Well, everyone is allowed to have his own opinions, but ...

A) I have direct experience with Class T chips and I like Tripath's sound and I can state that it's good.

B) I never heard a gainclone so I keep my mouth shout about it ;-)

C) I'd like all other people to behave the same way. The world is full of "political positions" ..... and mostly ruined by them.

Happy hearing to everybody.
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Old 7th May 2006, 03:22 PM   #10
BWRX is offline BWRX  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eva
Class D is nice when properly implemented, and very handy for either battery operated or very high power applications. However, it does not suit well for low-cost boom boxes due to design complexity and the requirement of two or more PCB layers, careful layout, ground planes, EMI analysis and filtering, SMD and other complex stuff.
On the contrary, it is perfectly suitable for use in low cost boom boxes because people that buy that sort of thing don't care too much about sound quality anyway. Plus, as you mentioned, higher efficiency means a longer operating time with battery power.

Obviously you can get better performance if you pay close attention to board layout, component selection, etc. but you can get decent results without much effort from most of the class d chip solutions available today. Heck, most class d IC manufacturers have app notes that give you good layout tips and tell you the best places to put critical components. There is a wealth of information out there that can help anyone to learn some of the intricacies of class d design and layout.

Quote:
Originally posted by Eva
Currently, linear circuit designers are migrating to class D ICs forced by new market trends without being aware of the added complexity of switching circuits, and the result is poor product quality (and nice radio transmitters).
Poor product quality is the result of linear circuit designers not knowing/learning enough about the technology to properly implement it before they start designing and building. They shouldn't have to jump on the class d bandwagon if they can make products that can compete (performance and price) with the current class d ICs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Eva
When you don't have the required knowledge and resources it's better to go linear (except if you want to learn the hard way like some of us )
You're absolutely right there. A lot of us are here because we want to get our feet wet before heading down that less traveled path
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