Hi,
I ordered an AMP6 from www.41hz.com and I'm building it with the most carefull attention since I'm a complete newbie in electronics (but I don't like to be told I'm not able to do something
)
This is even more difficult to me because I work only with 45 min sessions, 2 times a week.
The first thing I'll remember is : do not buy unleaded silver (4%) solder! It is even more difficult to solder because of the higher melting point! But that's all that I have, so...
It is not yet finished, but it passed yesterday evening the onboard power supply test : I got 21.5 V between C99 leads and 14.61 V between C1819 leads. Hurra !
Since this is the first time I do this kind of stuff (I already made my speakers, you can see them here. The text is in french, photos are international !), I'm very happy with this first result.
Here is the test board:
You can see the 39 KOhm resistor in place between C1819 leads for the power supply test:
Some details on the unfinished board:
I have now to solder the chip on the board. I hope to have some good news next week, but I'm still waiting a 10000µF stiffener cap to add in parallel to the C1819.
I ordered an AMP6 from www.41hz.com and I'm building it with the most carefull attention since I'm a complete newbie in electronics (but I don't like to be told I'm not able to do something
)This is even more difficult to me because I work only with 45 min sessions, 2 times a week.
The first thing I'll remember is : do not buy unleaded silver (4%) solder! It is even more difficult to solder because of the higher melting point! But that's all that I have, so...
It is not yet finished, but it passed yesterday evening the onboard power supply test : I got 21.5 V between C99 leads and 14.61 V between C1819 leads. Hurra !
Since this is the first time I do this kind of stuff (I already made my speakers, you can see them here. The text is in french, photos are international !
), I'm very happy with this first result.Here is the test board:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You can see the 39 KOhm resistor in place between C1819 leads for the power supply test:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Some details on the unfinished board:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have now to solder the chip on the board. I hope to have some good news next week, but I'm still waiting a 10000µF stiffener cap to add in parallel to the C1819.
Looking good niiico!
The chip is not too difficult to install, but the legs are always a bit bent - you'll have to straighten them.
If you solder a few pins on each end to hold the chip in place, it will be easier to install the caps that go in the leg holes.
You are right about silver solder, it can be a pain to use. Takes a lot of heat to melt.
The speakers look cool, nice work - C Bo! Ah, the good old "Maison du Haut Parleur". My son lives across the street from the Paris shop. They've been selling Audax longer than he's been alive.
Let us know how they play with the AMP6.
I am also working on a new speaker project that will look much like yours. But he drivers are quite different.
See this thread.
Keep up the good work!
The chip is not too difficult to install, but the legs are always a bit bent - you'll have to straighten them.
If you solder a few pins on each end to hold the chip in place, it will be easier to install the caps that go in the leg holes.
You are right about silver solder, it can be a pain to use. Takes a lot of heat to melt.
The speakers look cool, nice work - C Bo! Ah, the good old "Maison du Haut Parleur". My son lives across the street from the Paris shop. They've been selling Audax longer than he's been alive.
Let us know how they play with the AMP6.
I am also working on a new speaker project that will look much like yours. But he drivers are quite different.
See this thread.
Keep up the good work!
panomaniac said:
That's exactly what I was planning to do.
The most part of the work will be to wire it for the tests and then rewire it to put it in a box (I'm not yet sure of what case I will take).
BTW, when we are testing the board, there is some energy remaining in the caps and I got beautiful blue sparks by touching the leads (after main plug removal
). Is there a safe way to discharge the caps (not in my fingers
) without damaging the board?Yes, but I'll use it all because I have 500g of it
I should have invest in a solder station with more power than my JBC 40S. When this one will be too old, I'll invest.About the speakers, the kit is from HP Systemes but you won't find 'em anymore on the site since they've been replaced but the 217X (the Audax speakers don't exists anymore).
It works!
Hello,
my AMP6 is now functionnaly finished (I mean... it has no box today but it works ).
Let me tell you...
Last week, I have soldered the chipset and the caps within its legs without any problem. I had just some problems to identifiy the polarity of the diodes and ran out of time to finish it.
This was last week. As you can see, the FETs that drive the leds are in the orientation written on the PCB...
This week, Jan explained on the www.41Hz.com forum that the FETs had to be reversed... As a complete beginner, it took me 45 min at least and one of them is now, how to say... short!
But I did it. I connected also some temporary wires to test it for the first time...
You can see the "shorter" FET...
So... Before to connect anything to the amp, i had to test it doesn't burn when plugged and turned on
I put a 200mA fuse (as Jan advices it), put the amp in sleep mode and plugged it. No smoke, nothing weird. How is the fuse? Burned! $£*# !!
I checked everything twice, put a new 200mA fuse and tested again, watching the fuse while plugging the amp in. Instantaneously burned.
Re-check, re- new fuse, re- plug, re- $£*# !!
Everything looked fine, so I decided to put the final 2 mA fuse instead of the 200mA, ready to unplug the amp if it burned in smoke...
Looking at the fuse while I plugged, I noticed that the wire inside it "bent" a second but stayed in one piece. Nothing seems to be burning or becoming instantaneously hot, I woke up the amp and the green light went on. Ha haaaa, was I on the right way?
I think that the 200mA fuse burned because of the caps asking energy too fast... I hope it is that!
I measured 16mV and -54mv offsets (I don't understand why one is negative...). Looks correct.
Unplug, plug an Ipod, plug some small loudspeakers (my future surrounds), amp on...
Hurra! It plays music!
Here is a view of my "workshop", dedicated, as you can see, to my electronics experiences...
It's time now to find a box, to wire it with the right cables and then to add a stiffener cap as suggested by panomaniac. But I think there is already some good power inside the caps: it takes about 5 seconds to the music to stop after unplugging the amp!
BTW, when I turn off the amp, at the end of the 5s music, the red led lights on about 1 second and then goes off. Why is the red led going on at the end?
You can't imagine how happy I was to make this work at the first attempt!
Hello,
my AMP6 is now functionnaly finished (I mean... it has no box today but it works
).Let me tell you...
Last week, I have soldered the chipset and the caps within its legs without any problem. I had just some problems to identifiy the polarity of the diodes and ran out of time to finish it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This was last week. As you can see, the FETs that drive the leds are in the orientation written on the PCB...
This week, Jan explained on the www.41Hz.com forum that the FETs had to be reversed... As a complete beginner, it took me 45 min at least and one of them is now, how to say... short!
But I did it. I connected also some temporary wires to test it for the first time...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
You can see the "shorter" FET...
So... Before to connect anything to the amp, i had to test it doesn't burn when plugged and turned on
I put a 200mA fuse (as Jan advices it), put the amp in sleep mode and plugged it. No smoke, nothing weird. How is the fuse? Burned! $£*# !!
I checked everything twice, put a new 200mA fuse and tested again, watching the fuse while plugging the amp in. Instantaneously burned.
Re-check, re- new fuse, re- plug, re- $£*# !!
Everything looked fine, so I decided to put the final 2 mA fuse instead of the 200mA, ready to unplug the amp if it burned in smoke...
Looking at the fuse while I plugged, I noticed that the wire inside it "bent" a second but stayed in one piece. Nothing seems to be burning or becoming instantaneously hot, I woke up the amp and the green light went on. Ha haaaa, was I on the right way?
I think that the 200mA fuse burned because of the caps asking energy too fast... I hope it is that!
I measured 16mV and -54mv offsets (I don't understand why one is negative...). Looks correct.
Unplug, plug an Ipod, plug some small loudspeakers (my future surrounds), amp on...
Hurra! It plays music!
Here is a view of my "workshop", dedicated, as you can see, to my electronics experiences...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It's time now to find a box, to wire it with the right cables and then to add a stiffener cap as suggested by panomaniac. But I think there is already some good power inside the caps: it takes about 5 seconds to the music to stop after unplugging the amp!
BTW, when I turn off the amp, at the end of the 5s music, the red led lights on about 1 second and then goes off. Why is the red led going on at the end?
You can't imagine how happy I was to make this work at the first attempt!
2A slow blow is what I use. 2.5A regular fuse also works.
You are correct, Niico, that the big cap C99 is what was blowing your small fuse. I think that when Jan says to use a 200ma fuse he was thinkning of the AMP3 type boards, which do not have the big cap or the regulated supply.
Congratulations on your amp!
You are correct, Niico, that the big cap C99 is what was blowing your small fuse. I think that when Jan says to use a 200ma fuse he was thinkning of the AMP3 type boards, which do not have the big cap or the regulated supply.
Congratulations on your amp!
Would the "soft start" option keep the fuse from blowing while that capacitor is charging up? I know that a soft-start switch is recommended for most tripath amps, but there are no specific instructions for one with the amp6. Do I need a "three position" rotary switch? What value resistor?
Alternately, how do I rig a switch so I can switch between the chips mute mode and normal mode? Would that do it?
Alternately, how do I rig a switch so I can switch between the chips mute mode and normal mode? Would that do it?
The soft start on the AMP6 is the "sleep" function. If the sleep pin is tied to ground, the amp will wake up. From sleep to wake, there is only a very small noise.
The sleep pin is brought out to the connection row as is explained in the documentation. A simple switch will allow you use this function.
As for a soft start "a la Charlize", you would need to put a resistor in the path of the low voltage AC going to the board. It is the big 10000uF cap that causes the turn on surge. A resistor in series would allow the cap to charge more slowly. I don't think it would eliminate the turn on pop, but I have not tried it.
Jan of 41HZ says to use a 200ma fuse for testing. I can't get 200ma to work; it always blows when charging up the cap.
The sleep pin is brought out to the connection row as is explained in the documentation. A simple switch will allow you use this function.
As for a soft start "a la Charlize", you would need to put a resistor in the path of the low voltage AC going to the board. It is the big 10000uF cap that causes the turn on surge. A resistor in series would allow the cap to charge more slowly. I don't think it would eliminate the turn on pop, but I have not tried it.
Jan of 41HZ says to use a 200ma fuse for testing. I can't get 200ma to work; it always blows when charging up the cap.
Hi,
it has been a long time.
Since I still don't know if I'll use the AMP6 in an HC system or just in Hifi, I finally put the whole stuff in a paperboard box to test it in the Hifi part... Not very "safe" but sufficient to test it.
I still have my 2A fuse, but it seems to be ok (it becomes red in a flash when I turn on the amp, but it doesn't blow...).
I've added a stiffener cap (10000µF) and the speaker wires are made with 2 teflon 1mm diameter "silvered copper" wired together.
I use the same cable for the input, but I think I will use shielded cable in the final version.
Here are some pictures (you can click on them):
So how does it sound ? Fan-tas-tic ! I re-discovered my speakers : the basses are dry as I like and it is well more precise and defined than my Atoll AV500 (I use the AMP6 with my Atoll PR 5.1 pre-amp).
I'm sure the stiffener cap help a lot for the basses...
I have only one concern : when I turn on the amp, I hear a little "cloc" in the medium... Even with the mute.
Do you think it is possible to add some relays circuit somewhere to avoid this "cloc"?
Niiico
it has been a long time.
Since I still don't know if I'll use the AMP6 in an HC system or just in Hifi, I finally put the whole stuff in a paperboard box to test it in the Hifi part... Not very "safe" but sufficient to test it.
I still have my 2A fuse, but it seems to be ok (it becomes red in a flash when I turn on the amp, but it doesn't blow...).
I've added a stiffener cap (10000µF) and the speaker wires are made with 2 teflon 1mm diameter "silvered copper" wired together.
I use the same cable for the input, but I think I will use shielded cable in the final version.
Here are some pictures (you can click on them):
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So how does it sound ? Fan-tas-tic ! I re-discovered my speakers : the basses are dry as I like and it is well more precise and defined than my Atoll AV500 (I use the AMP6 with my Atoll PR 5.1 pre-amp).
I'm sure the stiffener cap help a lot for the basses...
I have only one concern : when I turn on the amp, I hear a little "cloc" in the medium... Even with the mute.
Do you think it is possible to add some relays circuit somewhere to avoid this "cloc"?
Niiico
Salut Niico! Good to hear from you again.
Crazy box, dude - crazy. But, yeah, you should really like the way the amps sounds. The Amp 6 is great.
Next step is a better box, but you should also replace the input caps. Try some Solen 2uF for the inputs. If you have room, and can find them, try Sic-Safco paper in oil. Very nice! Bigger than the amp.
The Amp6 uses the sleep function, not mute. It causes a little more noise than mute. The "cloc" will not hurt anything, but if you don't like it, you can put relays on your speaker output cables.
Crazy box, dude - crazy. But, yeah, you should really like the way the amps sounds. The Amp 6 is great.
Next step is a better box, but you should also replace the input caps. Try some Solen 2uF for the inputs. If you have room, and can find them, try Sic-Safco paper in oil. Very nice! Bigger than the amp.
The Amp6 uses the sleep function, not mute. It causes a little more noise than mute. The "cloc" will not hurt anything, but if you don't like it, you can put relays on your speaker output cables.
panomaniac said:
Next step is a better box, but you should also replace the input caps. Try some Solen 2uF for the inputs. If you have room, and can find them, try Sic-Safco paper in oil. Very nice! Bigger than the amp.
I'm a little affraid about those BIG caps. I think it may be a EMI antenna because of the connexion wires. I'd like to do some tests, but I need some time and I don't have a lot of it... How are connected the input caps? Can we connect them somewhere else (not on the board) to limit the wires size?
About the box, I'm decided to built a 5.0 way amp, so I can know buy a "big" box. BTW, is it a problem to use only one half of the amp6?
How do you connect a relay on the speaker output wires? I'm not an electronician, so I have no idea about the way to do this...
Thank you for your help.
When Jan talks about a 200mA fuse for the Amp6, isn't it possible that he is referring to a fuse on the primary side of the transformer?
I have no idea if this calculation is correct, but:
200mA * 230V / 15V = 3.06A
200mA on primary side is roughly equal to 3A on the secondary side, yes?
Anecdotally, I seem to remember reading something about fuses being noisy, indicating that they should be on the as 'far away' from the circuit as possible, but I'd guess that this is only different with regard to on which side of the regulator the fuse lies. It's probably pretty hard to stuff a fuse after the regulator in an Amp6 anyway
(... but still, what happens to this hypothetical 'fuse noise' inside the toroid?)
Disclamer: Fuses being noisy could also very well be my imagination.
Mainly, I'm bringing up the primary / secondary side amperage rating issue for the fuse.
edit:
Niico, about the caps: Separate film and metal-foil caps are considered better than metalized film caps, AFAIK. Source:
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/input-cap.html - section RC Filter Weakness 3: Capacitor Distortions
The former page has film+foil caps, which I'd thus guesstimate to be superior. I don't have experience with these caps, though. A good rule of thumb is that if the capacitor is bigger and more expensive, it's "better"
I have no idea if this calculation is correct, but:
200mA * 230V / 15V = 3.06A
200mA on primary side is roughly equal to 3A on the secondary side, yes?
Anecdotally, I seem to remember reading something about fuses being noisy, indicating that they should be on the as 'far away' from the circuit as possible, but I'd guess that this is only different with regard to on which side of the regulator the fuse lies. It's probably pretty hard to stuff a fuse after the regulator in an Amp6 anyway
(... but still, what happens to this hypothetical 'fuse noise' inside the toroid?)
Disclamer: Fuses being noisy could also very well be my imagination.
Mainly, I'm bringing up the primary / secondary side amperage rating issue for the fuse.
edit:
Niico, about the caps: Separate film and metal-foil caps are considered better than metalized film caps, AFAIK. Source:
http://tangentsoft.net/audio/input-cap.html - section RC Filter Weakness 3: Capacitor Distortions
The former page has film+foil caps, which I'd thus guesstimate to be superior. I don't have experience with these caps, though. A good rule of thumb is that if the capacitor is bigger and more expensive, it's "better"
What I mean:
Wall -> Fuse -> Toroid -> Amp6board
The fuse is therefore in untransformed 220V
In your amp it looks like it's so:
Wall -> Toroid -> Fuse -> Amp6board
Then the fuse is in the transformed 15V - tadaa!
I'm not sure that this is more or less correct, just that I believe that the fuse's value needs to be different. It should AFAIK be much smaller if the fuse is before the toroid.
Edit:
Wait, I thought some more about your answer and you probably understood me the first time The numbers from Jan seem to imply a secondary-side fuse. A 2A fuse like he suggests wouldn't make much sense in the 220V section Just thinking out loud
Wall -> Fuse -> Toroid -> Amp6board
The fuse is therefore in untransformed 220V
In your amp it looks like it's so:
Wall -> Toroid -> Fuse -> Amp6board
Then the fuse is in the transformed 15V - tadaa!
I'm not sure that this is more or less correct, just that I believe that the fuse's value needs to be different. It should AFAIK be much smaller if the fuse is before the toroid.
Edit:
Wait, I thought some more about your answer and you probably understood me the first time
The numbers from Jan seem to imply a secondary-side fuse. A 2A fuse like he suggests wouldn't make much sense in the 220V section Just thinking out loud - Status
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