A pcb with the smd stuff already in would suit me, probably many others as well.
Would it be feasable for some independant designers to get together and between them commission assembled boards that could form an impressive system? If I could buy ready made modules for class D amps, non os dacs and pre-amps at a low price I wouldn't care that much about low cost resistors/capacitors in critical places if the board had been designed to allow easy modding. Means I could start with a fairly decent low cost system (that worked) and upgrade with better components as and when the budget allowed. Once I had done all the upgrades it would be killer.
I do understand that circuit designers also have bills to pay. Not trying to get something for nothing but the £90 labour charge for 1 item would get heaps more built in an assembly factory once the economies of scale were realised. (I mean just modules, no cases, psu etc.) The designers would be designing new products instead of building already established modules.
I've no idea just how many units have to be ordered for a significant price drop, anyone know?
Would it be feasable for some independant designers to get together and between them commission assembled boards that could form an impressive system? If I could buy ready made modules for class D amps, non os dacs and pre-amps at a low price I wouldn't care that much about low cost resistors/capacitors in critical places if the board had been designed to allow easy modding. Means I could start with a fairly decent low cost system (that worked) and upgrade with better components as and when the budget allowed. Once I had done all the upgrades it would be killer.
I do understand that circuit designers also have bills to pay. Not trying to get something for nothing but the £90 labour charge for 1 item would get heaps more built in an assembly factory once the economies of scale were realised. (I mean just modules, no cases, psu etc.) The designers would be designing new products instead of building already established modules.
I've no idea just how many units have to be ordered for a significant price drop, anyone know?
Soldering SMDs really isn't too hard. It just takes a little practice. It's also much easier if you use flux and a nice flat tipped iron.
It would be possible, but not very practical. Location, time, and cost are of course very real issuesjohnthedoctor said:
That's true, but you have to remember that there is usually a significant start-up cost involved as well. I for one don't have the stability to plunk down a wad of money to have them made then hope that they all sell. That might be a venture better suited to a group of people that can pool funds. The idea of having them assembled did cross my mind but I never
I don't know, but I'm sure it's no small quantity.
panomaniac said:
We are spoiled for choice thanks to forums like this and designers willing to spend some time and effort to put a product out there.
A kit for my board would definitely be feasible. Hand assembled amps in very small quantities may also be possible - I can do it no problem but time is a precious commodity nowadays (job, girlfriend, other audio projects
, etc.). I don't know about you guys but I do this stuff simply because I really enjoy doing it. Making money while doing it is just a nice byproduct.
The 41hz site suggests that Litz wire is easier to wind but needs sommat to keep it in place once the toroid is built. The extra cost might be offset by the reduced labour time.
Air cored inductors might lend themselves to be being formed on a jig. I'm still a noob so heed the warning on them from Panomaniac but Charlize customers don't seem to be complaining about them. Has got me wondering about having 2 x 'air cored' amps in the same box though.
The thing about buying these kits ready built is the labour costs. Not denying a lot of you guys deserve £30 an hour or more...but for winding toroids?
No idea what the potential market is for assembled boards but for now let's assume it keeps growing.
homeworker #1 winds toroids, earning an average of £3/hr. (That's excellent for most home workers, there'd be a long queue for such jobs in this city.)
homeworker #2 solders in the through hole components (including the toroids) and earns an average of £6/hrr.
smd soldering, final testing and marketing is done by the main builder. The extra responsibility giving them an average of £15 to £20/hr.
While all this 'building' is happening the original designer is doing what they do best, designing more projects. Good products, low prices and no-one gets ripped.
What could really make the boards move is having someone like Terry Cain offer 4 or 5 different speaker kits (just the machined and sanded Baltic Birch plywood maybe?) that look absolutely gorgeous and also have matching cases. If you saw his work in the high street with the amp casing done the same you'd be thinking £thousands. Mr. Prospect sees all the luverly wood and the £50 or so entry level price point for a class D amp board and is hooked.
I now have every intention of ending up with an audiophile grade class D system but it is going to be a kludge because, lets be honest, all diy systems are, I've no idea how it's going to end up. What I'd really really like is for you audio gurus to put the idea of the finished product (complete system) into my head. I look at the final system and for just a few quid I can start the journey towards owning it.
Sorry for the long post but I think it's good topic and whatever gets you designers earning more also gets me better gear at lower prices. Whatever our level of knowledge and skill sets, we are in it together.
Air cored inductors might lend themselves to be being formed on a jig. I'm still a noob so heed the warning on them from Panomaniac but Charlize customers don't seem to be complaining about them. Has got me wondering about having 2 x 'air cored' amps in the same box though.
The thing about buying these kits ready built is the labour costs. Not denying a lot of you guys deserve £30 an hour or more...but for winding toroids?
No idea what the potential market is for assembled boards but for now let's assume it keeps growing.
homeworker #1 winds toroids, earning an average of £3/hr. (That's excellent for most home workers, there'd be a long queue for such jobs in this city.)
homeworker #2 solders in the through hole components (including the toroids) and earns an average of £6/hrr.
smd soldering, final testing and marketing is done by the main builder. The extra responsibility giving them an average of £15 to £20/hr.
While all this 'building' is happening the original designer is doing what they do best, designing more projects. Good products, low prices and no-one gets ripped.
What could really make the boards move is having someone like Terry Cain offer 4 or 5 different speaker kits (just the machined and sanded Baltic Birch plywood maybe?) that look absolutely gorgeous and also have matching cases. If you saw his work in the high street with the amp casing done the same you'd be thinking £thousands. Mr. Prospect sees all the luverly wood and the £50 or so entry level price point for a class D amp board and is hooked.
I now have every intention of ending up with an audiophile grade class D system but it is going to be a kludge because, lets be honest, all diy systems are, I've no idea how it's going to end up. What I'd really really like is for you audio gurus to put the idea of the finished product (complete system) into my head. I look at the final system and for just a few quid I can start the journey towards owning it.
Sorry for the long post but I think it's good topic and whatever gets you designers earning more also gets me better gear at lower prices. Whatever our level of knowledge and skill sets, we are in it together.
The problem is not building the stuff...
Throwing together (for example) a stereo UCD180 with standard hypex stuff, and selling it with a (for audio) low margin of 10-15% could be very nice extra money... It'll at least outperform midfi amps at the same price... but...
...in Europe we have the CE approval you need for every electrical device you put on the market - what's gonna happen the first time someone gets a fire or something, and your beautiful audio amp isn't up to CE standards?
...what are you going to do with RMA's? For sure someone is going to blow a module, and you need to cover this...
I tried to make a buck or two with dusting off old components and sell cheap second hand PC's to friends - let me tell you, it was nice money at first... but then they start calling for a defective fan or something... or worse, scr*w*d up windows systems - i could say no warranty, but it isn't easy to do...
Throwing together (for example) a stereo UCD180 with standard hypex stuff, and selling it with a (for audio) low margin of 10-15% could be very nice extra money... It'll at least outperform midfi amps at the same price... but...
...in Europe we have the CE approval you need for every electrical device you put on the market - what's gonna happen the first time someone gets a fire or something, and your beautiful audio amp isn't up to CE standards?
...what are you going to do with RMA's? For sure someone is going to blow a module, and you need to cover this...
I tried to make a buck or two with dusting off old components and sell cheap second hand PC's to friends - let me tell you, it was nice money at first... but then they start calling for a defective fan or something... or worse, scr*w*d up windows systems - i could say no warranty, but it isn't easy to do...
BWRX said:
The boards are in and they look beautiful! I'll post a couple pics when I get home from work. It's a shame that I found out a key piece of information about the TA2020 series chips after I ordered these boards that basically means this layout shouldn't be used, but I'm going to build one up anyway and see what happens
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.