Hi,
I can see there are a fair few threads talking about the UCD modules and I am pretty interested in them myself, but how do they sound?!
I am looking in to building an active rig and was thinking I might use a pair of UCD400's for the bass drivers (cross at 1.5KHz). I already have a Monarchy Audio SM-70 class A amp which I was planning to use for the tweeters but if these Hypex amps are so good....
How do they compare to something like the 'Class A' Monarchy Audio?
How would they compare to the Bryston 3B-SST and 2B-SST rig I am listening to now?
Thanks!
BTW, whats the best place to get the UCD bits from, I'm in the UK.
I can see there are a fair few threads talking about the UCD modules and I am pretty interested in them myself, but how do they sound?!
I am looking in to building an active rig and was thinking I might use a pair of UCD400's for the bass drivers (cross at 1.5KHz). I already have a Monarchy Audio SM-70 class A amp which I was planning to use for the tweeters but if these Hypex amps are so good....
How do they compare to something like the 'Class A' Monarchy Audio?
How would they compare to the Bryston 3B-SST and 2B-SST rig I am listening to now?
Thanks!
BTW, whats the best place to get the UCD bits from, I'm in the UK.
what speakers will you be using them with?
there are a bunch of threads out there talking about sound quality of the amps. search for my username in the class d forum. you should find a bunch of posts talking about the sound.
the modules themselves sound pretty good, but if you are looking to best a bryston amp, you may need to pay attention to designing a good power supply to get the most out of it.
there are a bunch of threads out there talking about sound quality of the amps. search for my username in the class d forum. you should find a bunch of posts talking about the sound.
the modules themselves sound pretty good, but if you are looking to best a bryston amp, you may need to pay attention to designing a good power supply to get the most out of it.
Could you give a hint as to which threads should be read regarding sound quality, particularly in comparison to solid state? I've read quite a bit of the UCD180 thread, but while there's tons of talk of how to build an amp with the UCD180, there's precious little discussion of comparisons between the UCD modules and solid state amps. I'm particularly interested in comparisons as I'll need two four-channel amps to power Orion speakers, and the UCD modules would be easy to do. Solid state (Aksa, the SKA) would be a bit harder. However, if the sound is better, I'd rather go solid state.
I really can't, there's alot more tech info here than the review variety, thankfully.
Search might help?
Really everyone's implementation being different is likely to have a very different outcome, it can really depend on what you do with it.
I've been seeing people mention class D Vs solide state. They are solide state, but good class d amps lack most of the misgivings that conventional solide state has (and minimize their own).
Why not play it safe, test the waters for yourself before jumping in with both feet. Get two, try them full range on a typical 3way system and see what you think, start experimenting with them and see how far you can take it, then if you don't like it after all that move on.
The hotrod thread will help.
Kepa, they can come a looooooooong long way from there! Being so load invarient they tend to retain the same tonal characteristics regardless. I did all my testing and experiments on speakers with 102dB efficiency..... you're still listening to electrolytic coupling caps with no DC bias.. etc. They're very decent in that form but, you really haven't seen anything yet.
Search might help?
Really everyone's implementation being different is likely to have a very different outcome, it can really depend on what you do with it.
I've been seeing people mention class D Vs solide state. They are solide state, but good class d amps lack most of the misgivings that conventional solide state has (and minimize their own).
Why not play it safe, test the waters for yourself before jumping in with both feet. Get two, try them full range on a typical 3way system and see what you think, start experimenting with them and see how far you can take it, then if you don't like it after all that move on.
The hotrod thread will help.
Kepa, they can come a looooooooong long way from there! Being so load invarient they tend to retain the same tonal characteristics regardless. I did all my testing and experiments on speakers with 102dB efficiency..... you're still listening to electrolytic coupling caps with no DC bias.. etc. They're very decent in that form but, you really haven't seen anything yet.
Maybe I can be of some help by sharing some of my listening impressions. My setup includes a Wadia 830 CD player, Krell KSL preamp and Avantgarde Duo 2.2 speakers. I recently changed the preamp with a Pass Labs X1.
As for the power amps I have a 6-channels UCD400 amp that I've built myself (I'll put out the pictures shortly), an MBL 8011 and a Classé C200.
The easy part first: there was no possible match against the Classé. It has simply been swept away by the UCD's in all possible aspects. Details, imaging, sweetness and bass clarity are on another league. I might say that the Classé has a slightly deeper bass but definitely muddier.
I've then made extensive comparisons between the MBL and the UCD's. Here things aren't that clear cut as before.
The UCD's definitely have a razor sharp image, in that you can pinpoint each instrument on the scene, whereas the MBL has a somewhat fuzzier picture. The scene, however, seems to be wider with the MBL.
In direct comparison the UCD seems to have more detail and more openness than the MBL, but it could also be due to the difficulty in matching the volume levels between the two amps (see my other thread on this issue).
I think I can discern a tinge of "metallic sound" coming from the UCD's, whereas the MBL has unmatched "roundness" and "full body", at the expense of some veiling of the sound, though.
The latter impression may be prompted by my horns, which would normally require tube amplification. In the next few weeks I'm going to experiment with ribbon speakers and I'll let you know.
Anyway, I'd have a hard time if I had to chose between the MBL and the UCD's. If you factor in the price, though, there's no doubt that the UCD's are the winners.
As for the power amps I have a 6-channels UCD400 amp that I've built myself (I'll put out the pictures shortly), an MBL 8011 and a Classé C200.
The easy part first: there was no possible match against the Classé. It has simply been swept away by the UCD's in all possible aspects. Details, imaging, sweetness and bass clarity are on another league. I might say that the Classé has a slightly deeper bass but definitely muddier.
I've then made extensive comparisons between the MBL and the UCD's. Here things aren't that clear cut as before.
The UCD's definitely have a razor sharp image, in that you can pinpoint each instrument on the scene, whereas the MBL has a somewhat fuzzier picture. The scene, however, seems to be wider with the MBL.
In direct comparison the UCD seems to have more detail and more openness than the MBL, but it could also be due to the difficulty in matching the volume levels between the two amps (see my other thread on this issue).
I think I can discern a tinge of "metallic sound" coming from the UCD's, whereas the MBL has unmatched "roundness" and "full body", at the expense of some veiling of the sound, though.
The latter impression may be prompted by my horns, which would normally require tube amplification. In the next few weeks I'm going to experiment with ribbon speakers and I'll let you know.
Anyway, I'd have a hard time if I had to chose between the MBL and the UCD's. If you factor in the price, though, there's no doubt that the UCD's are the winners.
well, since no one likes to search...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66069
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67390
these arent short threads, but if you read them, you will be well informed. they arent THAT long though. the first one is my thread that i started for my journey into class D. its almost like a condensed down UCD FAQ thread.
read through those and come back if you have any more questions.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66069
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67390
these arent short threads, but if you read them, you will be well informed. they arent THAT long though. the first one is my thread that i started for my journey into class D. its almost like a condensed down UCD FAQ thread.
read through those and come back if you have any more questions.
Hi Tenson:
I recently sold my beloved Monarchy Audio SE100deluxe monoblocks after living a while with UCD180ST (NE5532). Not the UCD outperformed the Monarchies in every aspect but just that I realized that the shortcommings would likelly be solved by carefull part selection and tweaking, as I am doing now with my new UCD400. Tweaking the Monarchies would be painfull and expensive.
Sound: the Monarchies are known for excellent soundstaging, "layering" and intrumental positioning, plus great tonal carachter and vocal reproduction. UCD are on par with those "class A" qualities, adding a wider soundstage a more relaxed presentation.
Bass from the Monarchies is very controlled and articulated. UCD's bass is deeper, has more armonics and is effortless no matter the speaker you put behind.
This is with Tannoy's Definition 500 speakers.
Now, If you take newer version of UCD and make a good PS with good quality caps and upgrade input signal caps, or better, DC couple the modules the level of transparency is world class.
I'm enjoying my hard earned Sikorel caps (and learning how to solve the mess that I first did on my amps
)
Hope this helps.
Mauricio
I recently sold my beloved Monarchy Audio SE100deluxe monoblocks after living a while with UCD180ST (NE5532). Not the UCD outperformed the Monarchies in every aspect but just that I realized that the shortcommings would likelly be solved by carefull part selection and tweaking, as I am doing now with my new UCD400. Tweaking the Monarchies would be painfull and expensive.
Sound: the Monarchies are known for excellent soundstaging, "layering" and intrumental positioning, plus great tonal carachter and vocal reproduction. UCD are on par with those "class A" qualities, adding a wider soundstage a more relaxed presentation.
Bass from the Monarchies is very controlled and articulated. UCD's bass is deeper, has more armonics and is effortless no matter the speaker you put behind.
This is with Tannoy's Definition 500 speakers.
Now, If you take newer version of UCD and make a good PS with good quality caps and upgrade input signal caps, or better, DC couple the modules the level of transparency is world class.
I'm enjoying my hard earned Sikorel caps (and learning how to solve the mess that I first did on my amps
)Hope this helps.
Mauricio
I have read the first few pages of those threads you linked but they don't say a lot other than that people tried a few different caps. They don't even say if they were replacing the caps on the supply boards from Hypex or if they made their own or anything to be honest! 30 pages is a VERY long thread you know...
no one has really definitively decided anything regarding this stuff. maybe thats the short answer. thats why people are referring you to the threads. you can form your own opinion on the stuff.
the hypex xformers and PSU's arent bad at all. they will certainly sound pretty good. but from what people have said, you can get them to sound better. the hypex psu's arent the last word in performance.
plus, there is actual modding of the boards, layout, and hookup of the amps. all these factors will contribute to sound quality differences. by simply saying "go here, buy these caps", you will just be left with more questions. i know 30 pages is long, did you see me on every page with a post? ive read it all. plus, ive read all the FAQ threads (50+ pages each) and the hotrodding thread, and a few others.
even though its a complete module thats already built, there is still a lot of knowledge to be gained regarding them. hopefully, i will get more free time and be able to work on my UCD guide a bit more, it should answer all the questions anyone would have, and not just about UCD amps, but most amps in general. BUT, it always comes down to time.
i asked earlier what speakers you had, i didnt see a reply from you on that. speakers act differently with different amps. if your speakers are efficient, you might not need the 400 watts, so the 180 would be good. if you have a fixed budget, this would give extra cash for a better supply. if you expect to spend $500 on two amps, you may not be able to get as good or better than the bryston... there are a LOT of factors involved here.
maybe some background from you would help? have you built electronics before? if this is your first project, the PSU is just one of many questions i assume you will have, so reading through as much as you can will be only helpful.
hope that helps a little bit... its just not a simple answer. the truth is, many of us dont know which cap is best, or what sounds best. but there are a lot of good guesses out there.
the hypex xformers and PSU's arent bad at all. they will certainly sound pretty good. but from what people have said, you can get them to sound better. the hypex psu's arent the last word in performance.
plus, there is actual modding of the boards, layout, and hookup of the amps. all these factors will contribute to sound quality differences. by simply saying "go here, buy these caps", you will just be left with more questions. i know 30 pages is long, did you see me on every page with a post? ive read it all. plus, ive read all the FAQ threads (50+ pages each) and the hotrodding thread, and a few others.
even though its a complete module thats already built, there is still a lot of knowledge to be gained regarding them. hopefully, i will get more free time and be able to work on my UCD guide a bit more, it should answer all the questions anyone would have, and not just about UCD amps, but most amps in general. BUT, it always comes down to time.
i asked earlier what speakers you had, i didnt see a reply from you on that. speakers act differently with different amps. if your speakers are efficient, you might not need the 400 watts, so the 180 would be good. if you have a fixed budget, this would give extra cash for a better supply. if you expect to spend $500 on two amps, you may not be able to get as good or better than the bryston... there are a LOT of factors involved here.
maybe some background from you would help? have you built electronics before? if this is your first project, the PSU is just one of many questions i assume you will have, so reading through as much as you can will be only helpful.
hope that helps a little bit... its just not a simple answer. the truth is, many of us dont know which cap is best, or what sounds best. but there are a lot of good guesses out there.
cowanrg said:
Thank you, that’s all I really wanted to know
I suspect you are a much faster reader than I am, it would take me a very long time indeed just to read those 30 pages.
The speakers I have at the moment are active PMC's which use Bryston 3B-SST for the woofers and a 2B-SST for the tweeters. However, I will be selling these to fund my DIY operation. Hence budget is not really a concern.
The speakers I will be using are not fully designed yet but they will likely be a Volt driver in a transmission line enclosure with a Fountek Ribbon. Modded digital crossover.
I have tinkered a bit with electronics but not a lot. I can solder and follow circuits. I am also friends with Thorsten Loesch who gives me some pretty good advice on the electronics side of things!
If I can buy the Hypex stuff and then mod it later, should I feel the urge then that’s great. I just didn’t want to be buying something that I could beat by building something really simple from scratch and have it cost far less. I wanted something I can build upon.
What have you got in your guide so far?
On this board, there's someone who's heard the SKA (simple killer amplifier), the Aksa, and a UcD and liked them in that order (i.e., UcD last). However, the UcD would be easier to build, especially for a beginner (like me) who uses the Hypex power supplies. As I need about 10 channels of amplification (4 per R/L speaker and two for center channel), the UcD modules seem easier to make.
I think the only way I'll be able to decide will be to order the SKA, Aksa, and UcD and build one of each.
I think the only way I'll be able to decide will be to order the SKA, Aksa, and UcD and build one of each.
cowanrg said:
Tenson said:
cowanrg said:
Hi All,
This interchange brings up a puzzling point. Why is it that folks are doggedly insisting on tacking on new questions to extremely long threads? One of these threads is now 186 pages!
It is like an easter egg hunt for those of us who are still on the steep part of the class D learning curve and do not have an masters degree in EE. I am beginning to think that this is like some sort of primitive rite of initiation. BTW, Searching on these forums is hit and miss. It depends upon using just the right words. If you are a newbie you may not even know what words to start with!
This is a wonderful forum and Class D is the best thing to happen to audio in 20 years. Let's begin some new threads and help each other out.
... and Yes, I have read those threads.
Best,
Paul
As Hypex is not making a FAQ page (AFAIK) maybe we (I mean the technically able here) should start contributing with cowarnq's site with different proposal of PS wiring, favorite caps, input wiring...etc. Starting another thread could yield the same results as previous ones.
Regards
Mauricio
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