Hi,
My first post
I am thinking about buying a t-amp and mod it (SI 5066). What do you think of doing that compared to build a new one like AMP3?
I searched through the forums and found mix opinion. Did a lot of reading in the past couple days. I'm leaning toward to get the SI since it might be quicker. I'm planning to get/build a higher power t-amp later.
I was away from DIY audio for 5-6 years but I still have confident on my solder
BTW, I've just purchased a Polk Audio R15 bookshelf. Would it be a good match? There were promotion and I got the speakers around $70 shipped.
tempoct
My first post
I am thinking about buying a t-amp and mod it (SI 5066). What do you think of doing that compared to build a new one like AMP3?
I searched through the forums and found mix opinion. Did a lot of reading in the past couple days. I'm leaning toward to get the SI since it might be quicker. I'm planning to get/build a higher power t-amp later.
I was away from DIY audio for 5-6 years but I still have confident on my solder
BTW, I've just purchased a Polk Audio R15 bookshelf. Would it be a good match? There were promotion and I got the speakers around $70 shipped.
tempoct
If you want to build one, get the AMP6. It sounds great - much better than the little Sonic - and it is very easy to build. Has a power supply onboard. You just need a transformer. You'll love it!
The AMP3 can be a tough build. All SMD. You may kill your 1st one, many of us did.
The Polk R15should be a pretty good match. But you'd be better off with about 6dB more sensitivity. 89dB/watt is kind of minimum. But it works for a lot of people.
The AMP3 can be a tough build. All SMD. You may kill your 1st one, many of us did.
The Polk R15should be a pretty good match. But you'd be better off with about 6dB more sensitivity. 89dB/watt is kind of minimum. But it works for a lot of people.
I'm very close ordering the AMP6 right now.
One question about PSU. Seems like the onboard PSU circuit is a regular linear one. I'm thinking that maybe we could mod it to use a switching power supply? It seems to be quite easy to get one these days. For instance, most laptop PSU are small SWPS anyway. Maybe we need to do a little more filtering but those PSU should be quite good quality since it's design to use with computer (never plug in to see the wave form though
)
What do you think?
One question about PSU. Seems like the onboard PSU circuit is a regular linear one. I'm thinking that maybe we could mod it to use a switching power supply? It seems to be quite easy to get one these days. For instance, most laptop PSU are small SWPS anyway. Maybe we need to do a little more filtering but those PSU should be quite good quality since it's design to use with computer (never plug in to see the wave form though
)What do you think?
With a good transfomer (I use a 16V 3.5A) the onboard regulator works very well -strong and clean. It allows the chip to work within 1 volt of supply voltage. Very good! Having the regulation so close to the chipseems smart, too.
The SMPS work well. I use them. But for the AMP6, I doubt there would be any gain. Might be noy be as good as the onboard.
The SMPS work well. I use them. But for the AMP6, I doubt there would be any gain. Might be noy be as good as the onboard.
I have been thinking along the same lines as tempoct. I planned to use a computer PSU as a switching power supply and considered Charlize, AMP3 or AMP6. The SMD components is a bit intimidating but so is also the comment on diyparadise.com:
======= quote ======
Charlize is a Tripath Class-T amp based on the excellent Tripath TA2020. After mucking about with various Tripath chips (TA2021, TA2022, TA2024), the 2020 won us over by a large margin (like Charlize!).
======= quote ======
The AMP3 is based on the TA2021 while the AMP6 is based on TA2020...
Regarding conversion of AMP6 for SMPS. Would this not just be a matter of bypassing the circuit on the board?
I would assume that I can run a computer PSU without fans considering the small load a tripath amp would make? This would make for a very cheap solution since computer PSU's can be found aplenty in wastebins here and there.
======= quote ======
Charlize is a Tripath Class-T amp based on the excellent Tripath TA2020. After mucking about with various Tripath chips (TA2021, TA2022, TA2024), the 2020 won us over by a large margin (like Charlize!).
======= quote ======
The AMP3 is based on the TA2021 while the AMP6 is based on TA2020...
Regarding conversion of AMP6 for SMPS. Would this not just be a matter of bypassing the circuit on the board?
I would assume that I can run a computer PSU without fans considering the small load a tripath amp would make? This would make for a very cheap solution since computer PSU's can be found aplenty in wastebins here and there.
I've got a modded S.I. (Silmics for smoothing mounted on the chip pins, Starget input caps, O.F.C wiring, little Alps pot and reboxed with gold phono's and binding posts)
Have an Amp 3 also. (Nichicon Muse input caps, Neotech 6N O.C.C. wiring, larger box than S.I. with gold phonos, 4mm speaker sockets, same little Alps pot and switching and inputs for 4 sources and tape monitoring.
Both used with a linear 12v psu and extra 4700uf of Elna Gold Tune smoothing caps, the Amp 3 wipes the floor with the S.I.
The gain on both is the same and the S.I has had the input mods as per Panomaniac's site. Also have a Skynet SMPS from Nuuk with extra 10,000uf of smoothing caps.
Result?
No contest after a very prolonged burn-in period. The Amp 3 walks it on all counts.
More of everything and very easy to listen to for long periods.
Very revealing of sources without favouring one over the other. I use a little QED phono stage that has been modified and vinyl never sounded so good!
Less grain with the Amp 3 and that often talked about inky blackness during silent pieces.
Wasn't always the case though, my first Amp 3 chip went awol and prior to the rewire with the Neotech and Muse caps it could be a little 'thin' sounding.
From experimenting it would seem that these little Tripath based amps are very revealing of the components used in their construction, something I've noted before only with tube amps.
On the subject of supplies, I've used the two above and a sealed lead-acid battery and much prefer the linear supply.
Odd, given that the linear is only rated at 1.2A.
So pleased with the Amp 3 I am (as Yoda would say) that for now I have no inclination to change anything on it or upgrade for that matter.
I would have no hesitation in reccomending the Amp 3 if one could overcome the surface mount phobia, even I managed to get mine to work first time!
Have an Amp 3 also. (Nichicon Muse input caps, Neotech 6N O.C.C. wiring, larger box than S.I. with gold phonos, 4mm speaker sockets, same little Alps pot and switching and inputs for 4 sources and tape monitoring.
Both used with a linear 12v psu and extra 4700uf of Elna Gold Tune smoothing caps, the Amp 3 wipes the floor with the S.I.
The gain on both is the same and the S.I has had the input mods as per Panomaniac's site. Also have a Skynet SMPS from Nuuk with extra 10,000uf of smoothing caps.
Result?
No contest after a very prolonged burn-in period. The Amp 3 walks it on all counts.
More of everything and very easy to listen to for long periods.
Very revealing of sources without favouring one over the other. I use a little QED phono stage that has been modified and vinyl never sounded so good!
Less grain with the Amp 3 and that often talked about inky blackness during silent pieces.
Wasn't always the case though, my first Amp 3 chip went awol and prior to the rewire with the Neotech and Muse caps it could be a little 'thin' sounding.
From experimenting it would seem that these little Tripath based amps are very revealing of the components used in their construction, something I've noted before only with tube amps.
On the subject of supplies, I've used the two above and a sealed lead-acid battery and much prefer the linear supply.
Odd, given that the linear is only rated at 1.2A.
So pleased with the Amp 3 I am (as Yoda would say) that for now I have no inclination to change anything on it or upgrade for that matter.
I would have no hesitation in reccomending the Amp 3 if one could overcome the surface mount phobia, even I managed to get mine to work first time!
I ended up order an AMP6. Anyway, if it works out well, I might order multiple Amp3 to create my 7.1 system
(still, have to think which amp to use for the ".1" in the system)
BTW, I read DIYParadise quoting that the SMD component sounds better.... what do you think of that? Yeo claim it's due to the nature of high frequency switching on Class-D that make the smaller components count.
(still, have to think which amp to use for the ".1" in the system)
BTW, I read DIYParadise quoting that the SMD component sounds better.... what do you think of that? Yeo claim it's due to the nature of high frequency switching on Class-D that make the smaller components count.
Thanks for the excellent response! I might go for the AMP3, they are quite cheap and would be a leap from my NAD314 anyways. I wonder if I can get hold of the Nichicon Muse's here in Sweden but some kind of good caps should find their way into the input stage I suppose.
Have you only used your TA-amps without a preamp? I have seen mixed reports on the virtues of a preamp in this config. I guess I just have to build it and try
Would you think that the Neotech cable (I suppose this is for the mains power) makes such a difference? They are quite costly.
Have you only used your TA-amps without a preamp? I have seen mixed reports on the virtues of a preamp in this config. I guess I just have to build it and try
Would you think that the Neotech cable (I suppose this is for the mains power) makes such a difference? They are quite costly.
Hey GJF,
Nice report. The 41Hz amps do sound good. The little Sonic Impact was just the tip of the iceberg, as we are now learning.
I've been trying to discourage guys from fooling around with the Sonic and move on to something better. The Sonic is at least cheap and easy! But once you've met the more sophisticated ladies, you don't want to go back.
Tintin,
The AMP3 is a good choice, but tricky to build. You might want to start out with an AMP6, unless your SMD soldering skills are pretty good. The AMP6 has a power supply on board, which is nice.
BTW,
say "Bonjour" to Milou and le Capitaine Haddock for me.
Nice report. The 41Hz amps do sound good. The little Sonic Impact was just the tip of the iceberg, as we are now learning.
I've been trying to discourage guys from fooling around with the Sonic and move on to something better. The Sonic is at least cheap and easy! But once you've met the more sophisticated ladies, you don't want to go back.
Tintin,
The AMP3 is a good choice, but tricky to build. You might want to start out with an AMP6, unless your SMD soldering skills are pretty good. The AMP6 has a power supply on board, which is nice.
BTW,
say "Bonjour" to Milou and le Capitaine Haddock for me.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I have not practiced a lot of SMD soldering but I am not a complete novice with a solder iron either. I might go for AMP6 for that very reason but OTOH the built in power supply might be superfluous if I decide to go the cheap route and use a SMPS scavengenged from a PC. Heck, it'll save me 14€
Haddock says "Cachinnating cockatoo! Those diodes are small!"
Haddock says "Cachinnating cockatoo! Those diodes are small!"
GJF said:
I agree with you whole heartedly. The Charlize amp got a good review and voila, that's the one everyone wants. That's fine if you want to spend more money for it though. I'm working on a TA2021B board that just about pulls out all the stops, but my implementation is making it tricky to lay out everything the way I want it and still keep it reasonably compact. Look for something in the near future as I'd like to see exactly what these chips are capable of! Of course SMDs are the way to go with these low power class d amps for both size and performance reasons.
By changing a few things here and there you can tweak the sound enough to make the difference between the current boards almost meaningless.
I've seen the begining layout and concept of Brian's board. It should be something really different. If it sounds as good as his concept, it will be quite an amp!
There is still more magic to be found in these little chips.
I've seen the begining layout and concept of Brian's board. It should be something really different. If it sounds as good as his concept, it will be quite an amp!
There is still more magic to be found in these little chips.
The Neotech wire I used was the 0.65mm dia solid core, a 6N U.P.-O.C.C. type. I used this for all the internal wiring in the Amp 3.
The wiring on the linear psu is the stock item that it came with, the only change I made was to shorten the lead as much as possible and fit an higher grade 2.1 m.m socket to mate with the chassis plug used as d.c. input on the Amp 3 case.
Input caps are Nichicon Muse 2.2uf 100v FA types.
These and the Neotech wires were purchased from Audiocom International on their website.
Capacitors priced at £0.75 each and wire at £1.38 per meter, plus vat and postage.
Not at all outrageous and well worth it for the improvement wrought. The capacitors fit directly into the holes in the Amp 3 pcb as does the Neotech wire.
Being solid core it stays neatly in place when formed and looks neat to boot!
I made a concious decision to not use a larger film capacitor as I think that the extra off-board wiring adds to the chances of picking up noise and I wanted to keep the finished amp small and compact. I would be interested in how the smt input caps compare but haven't tried them to be honest as I am really happy with what I have now.
At only 165mm wide, 100mm deep and 50mm high, with 4 inputs, a tape loop, extra smoothing capacitor, all controls and socketry including a rear mounted on/off switch contained within, I've achieved my aims.
The wiring on the linear psu is the stock item that it came with, the only change I made was to shorten the lead as much as possible and fit an higher grade 2.1 m.m socket to mate with the chassis plug used as d.c. input on the Amp 3 case.
Input caps are Nichicon Muse 2.2uf 100v FA types.
These and the Neotech wires were purchased from Audiocom International on their website.
Capacitors priced at £0.75 each and wire at £1.38 per meter, plus vat and postage.
Not at all outrageous and well worth it for the improvement wrought. The capacitors fit directly into the holes in the Amp 3 pcb as does the Neotech wire.
Being solid core it stays neatly in place when formed and looks neat to boot!
I made a concious decision to not use a larger film capacitor as I think that the extra off-board wiring adds to the chances of picking up noise and I wanted to keep the finished amp small and compact. I would be interested in how the smt input caps compare but haven't tried them to be honest as I am really happy with what I have now.
At only 165mm wide, 100mm deep and 50mm high, with 4 inputs, a tape loop, extra smoothing capacitor, all controls and socketry including a rear mounted on/off switch contained within, I've achieved my aims.
BWRX said:
If I weren't a DIYer, I'd buy a Charlize from Yeo. Great guy to deal with! Bought a few Monica boards from him to build up and he was very helpful throughout the build process. No interest in his operation, just a satisfied customer!
But, I am a DIYer, so I'll obviously be building something from 41hz labs sometime soon, unless another tripath based amp comes out that sparks my interest. To me, the 41hz boards seems like the ones everyone is itching to get
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.