This is a question impossible to answer,I believe,as very few have heard the new ZAPpulse!700XE
I resently borrowed a friends Tripath-based amp,with the perpose to compare it to my two amps, a LC Audio Patriot (a non-feedback class A amp) and a Dynamic Precision A1(a Norwegian design).
Some of my prejudice against "digital" amps vanished, I had feared that the sound of my system would degrade merely because of the digital amp´s emission of RF. But there was no clear evidece of degradation...
I got the best result by triamping, with the class A amp driving the treble and midrange: an Eton ER4 AMT, resp. an Accusound C79.
The DP A1 took hold of an Accusound 8" unit (upper bass), and the Tripath did its best with the Volt 3143 12" drivers.
My system is only temporary, I have used some years to refine the bass
, as this is vital to the music I prefer;reggae and afrobeat.By dealing with the bass,I eventually discovered how it effected the treble, in short, with better bass, one can hear more clearly what is going on at the opposite end of the spectrum.
Now I´m considering ordering two transformers 2*65V 1000VA,to build a digital amp around them. There´s an offer of free shipping until the 31st of january.
I have such limited experience of listening to a digital amp in my home,so now I´m asking: are they likely to sound significantly different in the bass region?
The consept of the Hypex and LC-Audio amps seems to differ when it comes to the application of feedback and Tripath has a variable switch frequency, perhaps it´s stupid to regard digital amps as a group with a common signature?
The positive properties, like higher efficiency and thus less need for expensive heatsinks, less heat generated and less mains electricity wasted, may lead to the assumption that their sonical signature are more homogeneous than they really are?And who´s right about their claim about sonical superiority?
Can it really be true,as to claim that the latest incarnation of the ZAPpulse can compete with the best conventional class A amps?
And would the sonical differences between digital amps be less prominent if they were true digital(digital input), instead of semi-digital?
I resently borrowed a friends Tripath-based amp,with the perpose to compare it to my two amps, a LC Audio Patriot (a non-feedback class A amp) and a Dynamic Precision A1(a Norwegian design).
Some of my prejudice against "digital" amps vanished, I had feared that the sound of my system would degrade merely because of the digital amp´s emission of RF. But there was no clear evidece of degradation...
I got the best result by triamping, with the class A amp driving the treble and midrange: an Eton ER4 AMT, resp. an Accusound C79.
The DP A1 took hold of an Accusound 8" unit (upper bass), and the Tripath did its best with the Volt 3143 12" drivers.
My system is only temporary, I have used some years to refine the bass
, as this is vital to the music I prefer;reggae and afrobeat.By dealing with the bass,I eventually discovered how it effected the treble, in short, with better bass, one can hear more clearly what is going on at the opposite end of the spectrum.Now I´m considering ordering two transformers 2*65V 1000VA,to build a digital amp around them. There´s an offer of free shipping until the 31st of january.
I have such limited experience of listening to a digital amp in my home,so now I´m asking: are they likely to sound significantly different in the bass region?
The consept of the Hypex and LC-Audio amps seems to differ when it comes to the application of feedback and Tripath has a variable switch frequency, perhaps it´s stupid to regard digital amps as a group with a common signature?
The positive properties, like higher efficiency and thus less need for expensive heatsinks, less heat generated and less mains electricity wasted, may lead to the assumption that their sonical signature are more homogeneous than they really are?And who´s right about their claim about sonical superiority?
Can it really be true,as to claim that the latest incarnation of the ZAPpulse can compete with the best conventional class A amps?
And would the sonical differences between digital amps be less prominent if they were true digital(digital input), instead of semi-digital?
Hello,
They really won't all sound the same, but will share certain characteristics, typically a certain level of effortlessness, lots of air, crystal detail..... of course it all depends on how well they're implemented just like any other amp.
If you liked a tripath that much though, I imagine you'll be a complete convert when you hear the rest.
Some "True Digital" amps like the DSD based one by Bruno are said to sound inferior to the much simpler UCD based variety..
Many have abandoned that avenue and yet others press on.
As far as anyone can say it seems the best sounding ones are self oscillating.
You'll have to jump in with both feet like most others or maybe you'll be lucky enough to hear a few more samples before you do, if and when you do though, do try them full range, they really aren't just for subs anymore, and really do shine across the full audio band.
Welcome to the club, 1.61803399.
Regards,
Chris
They really won't all sound the same, but will share certain characteristics, typically a certain level of effortlessness, lots of air, crystal detail..... of course it all depends on how well they're implemented just like any other amp.
If you liked a tripath that much though, I imagine you'll be a complete convert when you hear the rest.
Some "True Digital" amps like the DSD based one by Bruno are said to sound inferior to the much simpler UCD based variety..
Many have abandoned that avenue and yet others press on.
As far as anyone can say it seems the best sounding ones are self oscillating.
You'll have to jump in with both feet like most others or maybe you'll be lucky enough to hear a few more samples before you do, if and when you do though, do try them full range, they really aren't just for subs anymore, and really do shine across the full audio band.
Welcome to the club, 1.61803399.
Regards,
Chris
Thank you!
I surely know how the Dynamic Precision A1 sounds, and it´s one of the best, at least in the bottom octaves(Abbey Road studio use them for their B&W monitors). Unfortunately the DP A1 is a rather expensive amp, at about $10.000, so if it´s possible to build a digital amp in the same league,at a fraction of this, I will be very happy.
If the quality of digital amps already has reach such high level,it will gain our hobby and the environment as well.
The truth is, that amps do sound different, and to combine different amps in a bi or triamped system, is an art .
When I used the Tripath amp to drive my 8" and the DP A1 for the 12-inch drivers, the result was very different to my ears.Heard a lot (more than ever) of what was going on between the bass-player and the drummer on old disco hits as well a as on jazz-trios. In fact I was distracted by it ,i.e I concentrated too much on one aspect of the music. Therefore I swapped the amps around(think they have the same gain,but one is inverting).Some unpredictable results adds to our enjoyment?
I think it´s possible to order the ZAPpulse 700XE now, but if they can deliver, I can´t say.
Regards
Håkan
I surely know how the Dynamic Precision A1 sounds, and it´s one of the best, at least in the bottom octaves(Abbey Road studio use them for their B&W monitors). Unfortunately the DP A1 is a rather expensive amp, at about $10.000, so if it´s possible to build a digital amp in the same league,at a fraction of this, I will be very happy.
If the quality of digital amps already has reach such high level,it will gain our hobby and the environment as well.
The truth is, that amps do sound different, and to combine different amps in a bi or triamped system, is an art .
When I used the Tripath amp to drive my 8" and the DP A1 for the 12-inch drivers, the result was very different to my ears.Heard a lot (more than ever) of what was going on between the bass-player and the drummer on old disco hits as well a as on jazz-trios. In fact I was distracted by it ,i.e I concentrated too much on one aspect of the music. Therefore I swapped the amps around(think they have the same gain,but one is inverting).Some unpredictable results adds to our enjoyment?
I think it´s possible to order the ZAPpulse 700XE now, but if they can deliver, I can´t say.
Regards
Håkan
Hi,
The Zap700's have been available for, something like a month or more now.
Mean, if you're in no hurry to jump in, and it's "true digital" you're after, you may want to keep a "very" close eye on John Westlake, aka JohnW.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=70456&perpage=10&pagenumber=1
He'll likely have a better product and at a very small fraction of the cost than competing true digital stuff.
Regards,
Chris
The Zap700's have been available for, something like a month or more now.
Mean, if you're in no hurry to jump in, and it's "true digital" you're after, you may want to keep a "very" close eye on John Westlake, aka JohnW.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=70456&perpage=10&pagenumber=1
He'll likely have a better product and at a very small fraction of the cost than competing true digital stuff.
Regards,
Chris
Yeah,
He'd be best to answer that but I think I know the answer so..
He wants to sell the full system so his products work with known good components, doesn't want to take the chance of it ever being used in a less than perfect way, that means you'll see no modules, unless he's changed his mind.
Regards,
Chris
He'd be best to answer that but I think I know the answer so..
He wants to sell the full system so his products work with known good components, doesn't want to take the chance of it ever being used in a less than perfect way, that means you'll see no modules, unless he's changed his mind.
Regards,
Chris
Sorry,but my mind is set on building my first klass D- or T-- amp.I own a Rowland Synergy II preamp which is, -to a high degree ,immune of RF emission of the forthcoming "digital" amp
A tweaked VMPS active filter is also a substantial item in the rig, so I wouldn´t go the full digital route.
When it comes to my former negative attitude to digital amps, it was based on assumtions , and too little information. A German company X , which provides audio kits and modules, were highly enthusiastic about the Tripath modules,some years ago.Since then they have made an U-turn,and stopped providing these amps . The reason , they said (at least),that these amps contaminated the sound of the system they were placed in.
In addition,I heard very bad sound from a system that contained an ICE-power based amp , at a hi-fi show. And I thought the amp was to blame. Someone else claimed that the Tripath-amp I was planning to build (when Elektor published a series of articles of "how to build")a year or so ago, would ruin the sound of my system.
As I see it now, digital amps can´t really compete with the best conventional amps. I believe in the comparing review made by the Norwegian magazine Fidelity;they compared Rowland 302 monoblocks(ICE-power) to Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 and Dynamic Precision A1 Signature. The digital amp came close, but was beaten by both the traditional amps.
The Tripath I borrowed was made out of an evaluation board, but tweaked with Black Gate and Mundorf gold/silver caps etc.
Still it was left behind , especially in terms of rythmical drive and
engagement or involvement, by my DP AI. But the fact that I´m planning to build a Tripath, Hypex or LC-audio digital amp to use somwhere in my (tri-amped) system, reflects a change of mind.
Still hesitate which to choose, but I´m a little more confident that it´s not necessary to pay high-end prices to enjoy music.The Tripath amp was a very good amp!
A tweaked VMPS active filter is also a substantial item in the rig, so I wouldn´t go the full digital route. When it comes to my former negative attitude to digital amps, it was based on assumtions , and too little information. A German company X , which provides audio kits and modules, were highly enthusiastic about the Tripath modules,some years ago.Since then they have made an U-turn,and stopped providing these amps . The reason , they said (at least),that these amps contaminated the sound of the system they were placed in.
In addition,I heard very bad sound from a system that contained an ICE-power based amp , at a hi-fi show. And I thought the amp was to blame. Someone else claimed that the Tripath-amp I was planning to build (when Elektor published a series of articles of "how to build")a year or so ago, would ruin the sound of my system.
As I see it now, digital amps can´t really compete with the best conventional amps. I believe in the comparing review made by the Norwegian magazine Fidelity;they compared Rowland 302 monoblocks(ICE-power) to Conrad-Johnson Premier 350 and Dynamic Precision A1 Signature. The digital amp came close, but was beaten by both the traditional amps.
The Tripath I borrowed was made out of an evaluation board, but tweaked with Black Gate and Mundorf gold/silver caps etc.
Still it was left behind , especially in terms of rythmical drive and
engagement or involvement, by my DP AI. But the fact that I´m planning to build a Tripath, Hypex or LC-audio digital amp to use somwhere in my (tri-amped) system, reflects a change of mind.
Still hesitate which to choose, but I´m a little more confident that it´s not necessary to pay high-end prices to enjoy music.The Tripath amp was a very good amp!
Abbey Road amplification
Hi The Golden Mean,
When did Abbey Road change their ampliciation to Dynamic Precision units...?
Having sold them a 'different' brand of amplifier a few years ago (for the Penthouse suite for use on their B&W N801 monitors) i am interested...
Electrocompanient also said that Abbey Road used their Nemo mono amps - this was simply not true....
Cheers
Sheriff
Hi The Golden Mean,
When did Abbey Road change their ampliciation to Dynamic Precision units...?
Having sold them a 'different' brand of amplifier a few years ago (for the Penthouse suite for use on their B&W N801 monitors) i am interested...
Electrocompanient also said that Abbey Road used their Nemo mono amps - this was simply not true....
Cheers
Sheriff
Hi Sheriff!
I first saw the information about DP being used at Abbey Road maybe a year ago. Electrocompaniet has a new owner, -a big company I think.But for the Nemo monoblocks, just like you,I don´t believe they are used at Abbey Road.
Tripath TA 0105A modules are used in the Alner Hamplin SA 400 power amp reviewed in the January 2006 issue of Hi-Fi News.
It gets a very good verdict, but the measured performence has a flaw. ".....but showed a unexpected increase in distortion frow 100-200W in its left channel of up to 7%.The right channel achieved a substantial 380W into 8 ohm (405W dynamic) and 750W (800W dynamic) with distortion ranging from 0.035-0.3% over much of the power bandwidth."
At this link :
measurments
you can see the test results,but you have to register to be able to see them. It would be interesting to hear an explaination of the difference in performence between the channels!
I first saw the information about DP being used at Abbey Road maybe a year ago. Electrocompaniet has a new owner, -a big company I think.But for the Nemo monoblocks, just like you,I don´t believe they are used at Abbey Road.
Tripath TA 0105A modules are used in the Alner Hamplin SA 400 power amp reviewed in the January 2006 issue of Hi-Fi News.
It gets a very good verdict, but the measured performence has a flaw. ".....but showed a unexpected increase in distortion frow 100-200W in its left channel of up to 7%.The right channel achieved a substantial 380W into 8 ohm (405W dynamic) and 750W (800W dynamic) with distortion ranging from 0.035-0.3% over much of the power bandwidth."
At this link :
measurments
you can see the test results,but you have to register to be able to see them. It would be interesting to hear an explaination of the difference in performence between the channels!
As this is a decision under uncertainty and very little information seems available,I can:
A)Make a decision by the throw of a dice.
B)Buy the cheapest alternative, probably the UCD700
C)Seek more information, i.e. I have to wait.
D)Try to be intuitive(hard when you are a man ). and go for the one I believe the most in. I will in this case buy just one module to build from, then I can listen and decide if it´s good enough.
I have seen a comparision between Tripath , Hypex and ICE-power-based amps, at a Swedish DIY-site. Some guys made three amps , in a hurry(they welded their own cabinets). Their intent was to make a comparision at a DIY-meeting or show. As I doubt their findings,I don´t wright anything about them here.
At the moment, LC-audio Zap700 XE is my favorite, but please don´t ask me way!
A)Make a decision by the throw of a dice.
B)Buy the cheapest alternative, probably the UCD700
C)Seek more information, i.e. I have to wait.
D)Try to be intuitive(hard when you are a man
). and go for the one I believe the most in. I will in this case buy just one module to build from, then I can listen and decide if it´s good enough. I have seen a comparision between Tripath , Hypex and ICE-power-based amps, at a Swedish DIY-site. Some guys made three amps , in a hurry(they welded their own cabinets). Their intent was to make a comparision at a DIY-meeting or show. As I doubt their findings,I don´t wright anything about them here.
At the moment, LC-audio Zap700 XE is my favorite, but please don´t ask me way!
Hi achcheng!
If a company don´t answers your mail , when you are interested in buying their products, how will they respond if you run into problems when using their products, someone wrote.
If the e-mail problems are only temporary, they should tell us that that at their site. A friend says "the Danish people don´t respond to my e-mails" , I will ask him if this is LC-audio or another company, and let you know.
I read at the LC-Audio site, that they had skipped their telephone support, as the very majority of customers didn´t use it, but instead were using e-mails...
I will wait with my desision, and see if LC-audio put out more information about the implementation of the ZAP700 .
There are some scarcity of information at their site, e.g. they recommend us to use ferrite cores here and there, but as there are many types of ferrite (or iron dust), they should be more specific!
If a company don´t answers your mail , when you are interested in buying their products, how will they respond if you run into problems when using their products, someone wrote.
If the e-mail problems are only temporary, they should tell us that that at their site. A friend says "the Danish people don´t respond to my e-mails" , I will ask him if this is LC-audio or another company, and let you know.
I read at the LC-Audio site, that they had skipped their telephone support, as the very majority of customers didn´t use it, but instead were using e-mails...
I will wait with my desision, and see if LC-audio put out more information about the implementation of the ZAP700 .
There are some scarcity of information at their site, e.g. they recommend us to use ferrite cores here and there, but as there are many types of ferrite (or iron dust), they should be more specific!
On one of the other forums I discouvered a test of the UcD700AD;
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=219804#219804
Cheers,
Jan-Peter
http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?p=219804#219804
Cheers,
Jan-Peter
Jan-Peter said:
That was me and a friend Jan.
I currently own an AKSA 55N+ and he's just got a UcD700AD. We thought it would be a great idea to compare the two but I was rather shocked with the end results!
And BTW the AKSA is a superb amp and up there with the Leach, Pass and Le Hiragra etc.
The golden mean said:
I've read at least two comments from owners of LC Audio stuff that have emailed them with questions/problems and never got a reply. I also hardly ever visit the class-D section of DIY Audio so if I've seen two already how many more are there?
My friend said Hypex emailed him back quickly when he had a query about using the UcD700AD in balanced operation.
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