I built a stereo ZapPulse 2.3SE, and it worked fine for two months. Them one day, it stopped working and I smelled smoke. I still can't figure out what went wrong. Lars seems to be too busy for returning emails to help me figure it out, I even offered to send out the modules to him so he could see what smoked and what did not. Someone at LC audio mentioned it sounds like paracidic oscilation that smoked the amp. How and why I would like to know.
Any thoughts? The one very large resistor seemed to be what got hot, but a diode has a bubble on it as well.
I still can't figure out what is covered under warranty.
Terry
Any thoughts? The one very large resistor seemed to be what got hot, but a diode has a bubble on it as well.
I still can't figure out what is covered under warranty.
Terry
I tried asking them to replace my modules, based on the warranty as it reads on their website, but no one would return my emails. I tell you what, I will try again right now and report back in a couple of days the result.
I will also see if I can post photos, I don't know if my website server will allow access from forums such as this to individual photos, I might have to creat a website just for this purpose. I have learned a lot since the amp went up in smoke, unfortunately almost every Class D amp I have made has failed at one time or another in some way.
The best sounding one I built sounded incredible, but was very noisey, because of the way we laid out the PCB, then I found others making PCB kits and modules so desided to go that route. But other designs proved to be less stable, and more tempermental. Working with class D amps is the most exciting thing I have done in electronics in years, second only to making a jacobs ladder when I was 14 years old, that was really cool, although dangerous, that was part of the excitment as well.
I will also see if I can post photos, I don't know if my website server will allow access from forums such as this to individual photos, I might have to creat a website just for this purpose. I have learned a lot since the amp went up in smoke, unfortunately almost every Class D amp I have made has failed at one time or another in some way.
The best sounding one I built sounded incredible, but was very noisey, because of the way we laid out the PCB, then I found others making PCB kits and modules so desided to go that route. But other designs proved to be less stable, and more tempermental. Working with class D amps is the most exciting thing I have done in electronics in years, second only to making a jacobs ladder when I was 14 years old, that was really cool, although dangerous, that was part of the excitment as well.
Hi,
Yeah class d is a blast alright. So many interesting fields combined in one, highly challenging, with an end result that's astounding!
I'd like to hear more about the best one you've made someday.
Since Lars quit LC audio he has stated they'd continue their support by replacing faulty modules, this sounds like one.
I'd imagine if the level of support drops off they won't be selling too many of their new modules, do let us know how that works out. So far it isn't looking great but who knows maybe the email was lost in transmission or they're just too busy to reply? I'd still think they should have offered replacements when they decided it was parasitic oscillation that was the cause, with a newer version that's not susceptible to it.
It would be interesting to know what could cause it start oscillating for no reason, snubbing caps/resistors overtaxed and failing?
If all else fails you still have other class d alternatives.
Cheers,
Chris
Yeah class d is a blast alright. So many interesting fields combined in one, highly challenging, with an end result that's astounding!
I'd like to hear more about the best one you've made someday.
Since Lars quit LC audio he has stated they'd continue their support by replacing faulty modules, this sounds like one.
I'd imagine if the level of support drops off they won't be selling too many of their new modules, do let us know how that works out. So far it isn't looking great but who knows maybe the email was lost in transmission or they're just too busy to reply? I'd still think they should have offered replacements when they decided it was parasitic oscillation that was the cause, with a newer version that's not susceptible to it.
It would be interesting to know what could cause it start oscillating for no reason, snubbing caps/resistors overtaxed and failing?
If all else fails you still have other class d alternatives.
Cheers,
Chris
Well I dug the amp out of a box on the top shelf of a closet in my home to take pictures of it and the PCB, and remembered some interesting things. Here is a link to a web page I created that has photos of the amp and the module.
www.geocities.com/ready4regional/index.html
The other module has not visible signs of problems but has a very loud buzz sound when powered up, in fact if blew a tweeter of a speaker of mine, even though it was only one for a few seconds.
www.geocities.com/ready4regional/index.html
The other module has not visible signs of problems but has a very loud buzz sound when powered up, in fact if blew a tweeter of a speaker of mine, even though it was only one for a few seconds.
TerryG said:
Wow, that looks like a big mess. I guess, as you suspect that the damaged coil maybe the reason of this. I agree, that coil, just floating in the air is not a nice thing to have. How did you kill the tweeter? Was it connected directly to the amp (so without x-over)? Or did you use a x-over?
Best regards
Gertjan
My tweeters have a 2 mfd capacitor in series with them, they are 16 ohms so the crossover point is around 3K Hz. The buzz is very very loud on the channel that does not have any visable damage to it, other than the big resistor looks like it got hot as well, practically all the color bars are gone.
The largest problem I have is that LC Audio was little if any help in figuring out what happened, that is more important to me than getting new modules as I really want to know how I can avoid buring up more modules. It is almost like once they decided more than likely what the problem was, with the module, I heard nothing more from them anymore. I wanted it explained to me, so I could understand. I have not heard of others having these difficulties so it must be an issolated incident, but I sure hope you folks here can give me some clue as to what happened. Can parasitic oscillations be prevented? With the one module, it is clear that the output coil got broke in shipping, but the other module perhaps can be salvaged if I knew how.
On the one definitely bad module how can I check to see if the Blackgate caps are good. I would like to save them if I can to use again, as you all know they are very pricey. I would like to use them in someway if at all possible. It is a shame what came of this project, all that money and time, I don't feel comfortable continuing with it unless I feel confident I know how to prevent more modules from burning up.
The largest problem I have is that LC Audio was little if any help in figuring out what happened, that is more important to me than getting new modules as I really want to know how I can avoid buring up more modules. It is almost like once they decided more than likely what the problem was, with the module, I heard nothing more from them anymore. I wanted it explained to me, so I could understand. I have not heard of others having these difficulties so it must be an issolated incident, but I sure hope you folks here can give me some clue as to what happened. Can parasitic oscillations be prevented? With the one module, it is clear that the output coil got broke in shipping, but the other module perhaps can be salvaged if I knew how.
On the one definitely bad module how can I check to see if the Blackgate caps are good. I would like to save them if I can to use again, as you all know they are very pricey. I would like to use them in someway if at all possible. It is a shame what came of this project, all that money and time, I don't feel comfortable continuing with it unless I feel confident I know how to prevent more modules from burning up.
It's not that I am being hard on myself, I just don't want to buy two more modules only for them to go up in smoke as well. I mean you pay well over $300.00 on modules and you end up with junk, I have $300.00 of nothing right now. If I count how much I have in the chassis, and other projects I have a lot more invested than that, and still I don't have a working class D amplifier. No if I can learn SOMETHING, then at least that is the price of education.
I don't even want to install two new modules if they were replaced unless I can prevent them from burning out.
I don't even want to install two new modules if they were replaced unless I can prevent them from burning out.
TerryG said:
OK, if you want to hear what I did. I started with 4 ZAPpulse 2.2SE modules and wanted to use them to drive all speakers directly (without passive x-over). I found them too noisy to directly drive my tweeters (Vifa ringradiators) and they had a poor switch on/off behavior (probably fixed in 2.3SE) so I did not want to risk my tweeters. I then tried UcD180 modules that were a lot cheaper than the ZAPs and I still use those for mid and tweeters, for woofers I use UcD400. UcD180 already running for more than a year (not very intensive though) and no issues. I plan to go to a complete UcD400 system soon, have all the amps already at home, just need to find time to built everything up, total of 8 amps and two switching power supplies that all need to be encased in 4 cases (seperate left rigth and seperate power suply and amp cases). Quite a bit of work.
Best regards
Gertjan
Hi,
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't see it being your responsibility as the user to have to prevent the parasitic oscillations.
Maybe you do need a more robust amp, and a manufacturer with better support, maybe you do need UCD.
Seems like they've had ample opportunity to fix this already. I'm honestly a little sad to see that they don't take this as an opportunity to demonstrate their ongoing commitment to support both their product and customers, because to me that means they won't be around much longer.
I fully empathize with your situation and know exactly what you mean about wanting to learn from it, perhaps the only lesson you need is in these last few posts, I guess LCaudio will decide that for you shortly.
You can be the top heart transplant surgeon in the world but if the heart they bring you can't beat you're screwed all the same.
Regards,
Chris
Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't see it being your responsibility as the user to have to prevent the parasitic oscillations.
Maybe you do need a more robust amp, and a manufacturer with better support, maybe you do need UCD.
Seems like they've had ample opportunity to fix this already. I'm honestly a little sad to see that they don't take this as an opportunity to demonstrate their ongoing commitment to support both their product and customers, because to me that means they won't be around much longer.
I fully empathize with your situation and know exactly what you mean about wanting to learn from it, perhaps the only lesson you need is in these last few posts, I guess LCaudio will decide that for you shortly.
You can be the top heart transplant surgeon in the world but if the heart they bring you can't beat you're screwed all the same.
Regards,
Chris
Well I got a couple of very nice emails from: Lars B. Nielsen / Tech Support for LC Audio. At this point I am sending my modules in to get either repaired or replaced. It has only taken a year, since the smoke, to get this response. Above all else, I really want to know what happened, and what I can do to prevent it if possible. I really don't want to get two more working modules to go down this road all over again. I am going to install extra fuses in the amp on the DC side of the power supply.
My largest concern at this point is that I have the modules with the Blackgate caps. I really want modules with Blackgate caps. So if I get new ones it would be really nice if they would solder in the old caps, or at least send the caps back for me to do this. That is if they are any good anymore, I can't imagine why they would be bad. Although one the plastic wrap around it with the printing looks like it got hot, or the cap expanded as it has cracked open, so I don't know.
Anyway I am very excited at even the prospect of getting this amplifier working again, it was awesome when it was running. It didn't sound nearly as nice as my favorite class D amp, which was the very first one I listened to, but it was very easy to listen to. The most notable feature of its sound, was that there was absolutely no listener fatigue, you could listen for hours and the music was still appealing. It just didn't have the goosebump factor that my favorite class D amplifier did.
My largest concern at this point is that I have the modules with the Blackgate caps. I really want modules with Blackgate caps. So if I get new ones it would be really nice if they would solder in the old caps, or at least send the caps back for me to do this. That is if they are any good anymore, I can't imagine why they would be bad. Although one the plastic wrap around it with the printing looks like it got hot, or the cap expanded as it has cracked open, so I don't know.
Anyway I am very excited at even the prospect of getting this amplifier working again, it was awesome when it was running. It didn't sound nearly as nice as my favorite class D amp, which was the very first one I listened to, but it was very easy to listen to. The most notable feature of its sound, was that there was absolutely no listener fatigue, you could listen for hours and the music was still appealing. It just didn't have the goosebump factor that my favorite class D amplifier did.
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