Hi,
I am trying to decide between buying an LM3875 kit from :
http://www.madaboutsound.com/prod_det.asp?product_id=1
versus modding a T-amp or buying a kit from http://www.41hz.com/ or the 2020 based kit from : http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=257
Does anyone have direct experience of the strengths/weaknesses of these alternatives or is the consensus that T-amps are better than LM3875 chipamps or vice versa ?
Thanks Jack
I am trying to decide between buying an LM3875 kit from :
http://www.madaboutsound.com/prod_det.asp?product_id=1
versus modding a T-amp or buying a kit from http://www.41hz.com/ or the 2020 based kit from : http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=257
Does anyone have direct experience of the strengths/weaknesses of these alternatives or is the consensus that T-amps are better than LM3875 chipamps or vice versa ?
Thanks Jack
I have compared the T amp and gainclone just a few days ago...
The T amp is moddified and re cased and was used with a good power supply, it is considerably better than an of the shelf one.
The gainclone uses lm3886 and is built point to point using v.good quality parts.
Verdict? gainclone wins!, but by only a surprisingly small margin....
The gainclone also has MUCH more power and that really swings it for the gainclone.
It must be said that the T amp really is amazing for what it is though!, all the rumours are true.
I dont' know how some of the bigger/better Tripath IC's would perform relative to the gainclone....I've yet to hear them.
Jez.
The T amp is moddified and re cased and was used with a good power supply, it is considerably better than an of the shelf one.
The gainclone uses lm3886 and is built point to point using v.good quality parts.
Verdict? gainclone wins!, but by only a surprisingly small margin....
The gainclone also has MUCH more power and that really swings it for the gainclone.
It must be said that the T amp really is amazing for what it is though!, all the rumours are true.
I dont' know how some of the bigger/better Tripath IC's would perform relative to the gainclone....I've yet to hear them.
Jez.
Hmm..different Newcastles' 12000 miles apart, hello from one to the other.
I don't know about "much better" than T amp...I am using 3886 rather than 3875 and I don't know how they compare, I do have some LM3875 also, but I have been so impressed with the 3886 I have had no reason to try them.
I point out to the previous post-er that I am using 4Ohm speakers that are quite efficient, the T amp delivers about 11W into my speakers and I was careful not to let the T amp get to near to clipping when comparing to the gainclone.
Overall, it was quite unusual to hear two such different amplifiers sound so similar! But, yes, the gainclone beats it. The main (slight!) criticism of the T amp, to my ears, is that it can sound a bit coloured at times, mainly in the midrange and on fairly powerful sustained sounds...a bit "blowsy", and over warm. Strangely this is only apparent, as I said above, on certain sounds/material and not all the time as with some lesser quality valve amps and, to be fair, this is an Nth degree criticism.
They both seem to do things "more right" than most amps...at any price!
Jez.
I don't know about "much better" than T amp...I am using 3886 rather than 3875 and I don't know how they compare, I do have some LM3875 also, but I have been so impressed with the 3886 I have had no reason to try them.
I point out to the previous post-er that I am using 4Ohm speakers that are quite efficient, the T amp delivers about 11W into my speakers and I was careful not to let the T amp get to near to clipping when comparing to the gainclone.
Overall, it was quite unusual to hear two such different amplifiers sound so similar! But, yes, the gainclone beats it. The main (slight!) criticism of the T amp, to my ears, is that it can sound a bit coloured at times, mainly in the midrange and on fairly powerful sustained sounds...a bit "blowsy", and over warm. Strangely this is only apparent, as I said above, on certain sounds/material and not all the time as with some lesser quality valve amps and, to be fair, this is an Nth degree criticism.
They both seem to do things "more right" than most amps...at any price!
Jez.
That's all great feedback.
The kit from http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=257
is based on a higher power Tripath chip and 'audiophile' design. It would be great if someone had a comparison with that.
The kit from http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=42&products_id=257
is based on a higher power Tripath chip and 'audiophile' design. It would be great if someone had a comparison with that.
There is an identical thread in the GC section called Sound of Gaincard vs. T-amp. Everyone there seems to like the GCs better too, which reminds me to not listen to people on these boards about what sounds best. I think the Amp1-B (with upgraded input caps, and better rail caps) sounds better. Thus I think the real answer is that you should build them both as they are both cheap, both sound decent for the money, but do indeed sound different.
i still have yet to hear a gainclone that doesnt sound like mediocre low-fi. ive built several in all different configurations and am throroughly unimpressed with their sound quality.
im going to buy a t-amp just for grins to power a small pair of bookshelf speakers in a secondary system. ill be curiuos how it holds up with the "sound" of a gainclone.
im going to buy a t-amp just for grins to power a small pair of bookshelf speakers in a secondary system. ill be curiuos how it holds up with the "sound" of a gainclone.
dsavitsk said:
Yes, you have to mod them to get away with the hiss. On the AMP1B PCB Change the line caps. from 330uF to 680uf/35V(hiss), the bypass cap. from 100uf/35V to 1000/1500/16V (whistle), put a 10uf/100V (remaining hiss)polyester on the + to 0V on the main plug on the PCB, change input caps to a better 1(I use 22uF/16v Caps) et voila..............a very clear sounding amp. Worth every cent.
I fear this is another 'swamp' into which it is all too easy to get sucked in!
Long before Gainclones, or class-T amps, a sensible audiophile knew that some amps worked better with some speakers and not with others. It's a case of synergy! So to ask 'does the T-AMP sound better than the GC?' is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string!
I have been lucky enough to listen to four class-T amps and many versions of the GC, in my own system (actually in two different systems). In both systems, my speakers are a very easy load for the amps and both GC and class-T amps work very well with very good results.
At present I am keeping one of the 2020 amps in my main system with no desire to put back my 'flagship' GC although I will do soon, just to see if I have changed my mind about which I prefer.
I don't think anybody can give a definitive answer to the question and the best advice so far is to try both and decide for yourself. I do like the fact that I can run the class-T amps from a single small SMPS though!
Long before Gainclones, or class-T amps, a sensible audiophile knew that some amps worked better with some speakers and not with others. It's a case of synergy! So to ask 'does the T-AMP sound better than the GC?' is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string!
I have been lucky enough to listen to four class-T amps and many versions of the GC, in my own system (actually in two different systems). In both systems, my speakers are a very easy load for the amps and both GC and class-T amps work very well with very good results.
At present I am keeping one of the 2020 amps in my main system with no desire to put back my 'flagship' GC although I will do soon, just to see if I have changed my mind about which I prefer.
I don't think anybody can give a definitive answer to the question and the best advice so far is to try both and decide for yourself. I do like the fact that I can run the class-T amps from a single small SMPS though!
Nuuk,
I understand what you are saying. I just wanted a starting point in terms of understanding whether these options were in the same ball-park or whether there was a consensus that one or the other was clearly superior. Now I know, thanks to everyone's valuable opinions, that they are indeed comparable I can go ahead and make a more informed choice.
I understand what you are saying. I just wanted a starting point in terms of understanding whether these options were in the same ball-park or whether there was a consensus that one or the other was clearly superior. Now I know, thanks to everyone's valuable opinions, that they are indeed comparable I can go ahead and make a more informed choice.
Nuuk said:
You're killing us, Nuuk! Enquiring mind want to know, you know?
This is pure conjecture, and as far as I know Nuuk has given away nothing, but somehow I get the feeling that the 2020 amp in question has a feminine name and is made by a guy who also make a DAC with a feminine name.
I only say that because I've heard some extremely positive comments on this amp by other forum member who's tried it against some other T-amps. Of course, I could be totally wrong and Nuuk could be talking about something totally different... I have a gut feeling, though. Can't wait to find out.
Best,
KT
BTW, I find that running a Gaincard with a tube preamp is the way to go. The Gaincard by itself was really clean and had some good musical qualities to it, but it did sound a tad bit clinical by itself (original version of Gaincard - they've tweaked the circuit to sound sweeter recently). With a properly modded Cary SLP-94, the sound was really musical. Really synergy going on, there. A whole other animal.
I expect that a good tube pre on a T-amp is also really nice.
Can't say which may be better in this context, but I urge anyone using these amps to try it out.
Best,
KT
I expect that a good tube pre on a T-amp is also really nice.
Can't say which may be better in this context, but I urge anyone using these amps to try it out.
Best,
KT
I agree that the GC tends to sound best when 'fed' by a pre-amp or buffered stage!
For those of you feeling like young kids on Christmas Eve, I can tell you that the review on TNT should be out very soon now.
BTW the TNT site is currently down. I hope that's not due to you all looking for that class-T review!
For those of you feeling like young kids on Christmas Eve, I can tell you that the review on TNT should be out very soon now.
BTW the TNT site is currently down. I hope that's not due to you all looking for that class-T review!
Hi ,
I have a pretty damn decent Gainclone setup built using BrianGT/CarlosFM 's Dual Mono Lm3886 kit. All wired internall using silver wire, good caps etc. It is also buffered running through the 3 transistor buffer design on Nuuks site using the described PSU. All in it is a excellent setup IMHO best i had heard at that stage. I then went on a Class-D extravaganza using a stock SI, a heavy modified SI and finally an AMP3. All using a decent quailty SMPS. I like them all though the AMP3 is clearly the better class D. Now unlike Nuuk i have a set of 2 way floor standers which are not that easy to drive, even so i get decent enough SPL with any of the amps though the gainclone have a lot more i reserve.
At the moemnt the AMP3 is in my system and like Nuuk i plan to put my gainclones back in at somepoint to check but for now i prefer AMP3.
They are easily in the same ball park and like nuuk says it is probably more about what type of music you listen to and what the rest of your system does to the music.
FIl
Oh so that means next week does it Nuuk, not up thwre now and it gets updated once a week so thats what my moneys on!!
I have a pretty damn decent Gainclone setup built using BrianGT/CarlosFM 's Dual Mono Lm3886 kit. All wired internall using silver wire, good caps etc. It is also buffered running through the 3 transistor buffer design on Nuuks site using the described PSU. All in it is a excellent setup IMHO best i had heard at that stage. I then went on a Class-D extravaganza using a stock SI, a heavy modified SI and finally an AMP3. All using a decent quailty SMPS. I like them all though the AMP3 is clearly the better class D. Now unlike Nuuk i have a set of 2 way floor standers which are not that easy to drive, even so i get decent enough SPL with any of the amps though the gainclone have a lot more i reserve.
At the moemnt the AMP3 is in my system and like Nuuk i plan to put my gainclones back in at somepoint to check but for now i prefer AMP3.
They are easily in the same ball park and like nuuk says it is probably more about what type of music you listen to and what the rest of your system does to the music.
FIl
Oh so that means next week does it Nuuk, not up thwre now and it gets updated once a week so thats what my moneys on!!
Some test about class d amplifiers
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/ClassD/classD.html
Yesterday we have tested also a Gainclone reference with all Caddock
http://www.audiosector.com/ Premium kit
There are many differences on class d amplifiers
The Gainclone have a very smooth sound probably because there is a lot of feedback to compensate the cheap amplifier stage.
The my opinion is: the Gainclone could be better than the best class d only if you use a bad digital source with metallic sound to block.
http://www.audiodesignguide.com/ClassD/classD.html
Yesterday we have tested also a Gainclone reference with all Caddock
http://www.audiosector.com/ Premium kit
There are many differences on class d amplifiers
The Gainclone have a very smooth sound probably because there is a lot of feedback to compensate the cheap amplifier stage.
The my opinion is: the Gainclone could be better than the best class d only if you use a bad digital source with metallic sound to block.
I guess I can offer my experience on this subject, having buila both a 41hz amp 4 and an audiosector gainclone...
the speakers used in this comparrison were fullrange fostex 166 (phase plugged, enabled) driven metronomes with supertweeters.
12 ga extension cords for speaker cables
AMP 4:
24v linear PS
Very wide and defined soundstage. sounds can seem to come from well beyond the outsides of the speakers, "airy" tonality, but the performers in the soundstage are more like ghosts... they seem to float in space, and have a sort of semi-transparency and lightness... Excellent detail.
Gainclone
2x12v SLA battery power supply
Very dense soundstage, performers sound SOLID, but also seem squished together... Soundstage is set entirley between the speakers. Perhaps more of a strong, solid tone, but also less refined. Less detail, more "emotion" or "oomph"...
Also: the gainclone will not reach as high of volumes as the T amp will with the same PS voltage (24V)
the speakers used in this comparrison were fullrange fostex 166 (phase plugged, enabled) driven metronomes with supertweeters.
12 ga extension cords for speaker cables
AMP 4:
24v linear PS
Very wide and defined soundstage. sounds can seem to come from well beyond the outsides of the speakers, "airy" tonality, but the performers in the soundstage are more like ghosts... they seem to float in space, and have a sort of semi-transparency and lightness... Excellent detail.
Gainclone
2x12v SLA battery power supply
Very dense soundstage, performers sound SOLID, but also seem squished together... Soundstage is set entirley between the speakers. Perhaps more of a strong, solid tone, but also less refined. Less detail, more "emotion" or "oomph"...
Also: the gainclone will not reach as high of volumes as the T amp will with the same PS voltage (24V)
I have a 4 way gainclone, the inverted design courtesy of NUUK's site. The stereo pair is fed by a kookaburra preamp, which has BB opamps as buffers.
Just recently I started playing with Sure Tripath TA2024 based boards. With a little modification, they are sounding pretty damn good.
Over this weekend I finally used them with my Mission 753's
Wow! They sound very good indeed. As NUUK mentions above, power supply wise you dont need a lot to run them.
Which is my favourite? At this minute in time, the Tripaths are impressing me loads. I will need to finish off an amplifier and compare them properly but I would not be suprised if I choose the tripath. The clarity they produce is quite incredible. I love the speed as well. Plugging in my Gainclones, they certainly seem smoother, but the top end is not so detailed.
The Sure boards do need some modification, but they are so cheap and even the modifications required dont break the bank (some are even free)
I will write up a comparison on my site eventually, but I have a few more modifications to perform and write up before I put them head to head.
Just recently I started playing with Sure Tripath TA2024 based boards. With a little modification, they are sounding pretty damn good.
Over this weekend I finally used them with my Mission 753's
Wow! They sound very good indeed. As NUUK mentions above, power supply wise you dont need a lot to run them.
Which is my favourite? At this minute in time, the Tripaths are impressing me loads. I will need to finish off an amplifier and compare them properly but I would not be suprised if I choose the tripath. The clarity they produce is quite incredible. I love the speed as well. Plugging in my Gainclones, they certainly seem smoother, but the top end is not so detailed.
The Sure boards do need some modification, but they are so cheap and even the modifications required dont break the bank (some are even free)
I will write up a comparison on my site eventually, but I have a few more modifications to perform and write up before I put them head to head.
I've designed and built both Tripath and LM3875 based amps from the ground up. I like both! If your speakers need more than ~7W to play at the volumes you listen to then go with a LM based amp or one of the higher power Tripath chips. If you have sensitive speakers and/or listen at lower volumes then the lower power Tripath based amps could work nicely.
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