Hey all. This is what i am after and maybe you guys can help out a beginner. So not much experience at all, but willing to learn and can ask alot of questions which i hope should help me along. I want to build a 5 channel UCD 400 digital amp. So i am considering a case from Par metal, the EMI/RFI shielded case with measurements of 19W x 16D x 5.25H which i would think would be enough room for everything, yes? 5 UCD400 modules. Now for a power supply, will the LCaudio Virtual4polePSU be ok? it will do their zappulse modules up to 8 channels so i am hoping it will be fine for the UCD's. 2 X 42 V AC secondary, two 500 VA's transformers. various other wiring, binding posts, and ?????
so am i close? Thank you for any advice or info.
so am i close? Thank you for any advice or info.
Pharsyd,
Since I am doing the same thing(except I started with a stereo version instead...), I've learned some things, although mine is not working yet(damn toroids are taking forever to be built...)
I believe 42V secondaries may be too hot, if that is with load. Usually, they will not be a problem, but if you experience some common level of overvoltage on your home, like as an example 10%+, you may actually go over the voltage limits of the module.
About the two 500VA toroids, they should work, but the resulting amplifier will not hold the 5X400 watts all channel driven specs with only 1000VA available...
Allan
Since I am doing the same thing(except I started with a stereo version instead...), I've learned some things, although mine is not working yet(damn toroids are taking forever to be built...)
I believe 42V secondaries may be too hot, if that is with load. Usually, they will not be a problem, but if you experience some common level of overvoltage on your home, like as an example 10%+, you may actually go over the voltage limits of the module.
About the two 500VA toroids, they should work, but the resulting amplifier will not hold the 5X400 watts all channel driven specs with only 1000VA available...
Allan
Great advice
Thanks for the advice Allan. What would you recommend for transformers and secondaries? I have read, hopefully understanding it right, that more power with the transformers can really open things up. I just went by the suggestion of what LC audio recommended at their site but that was applying to their zap modules. So would their V4p still suit the project well, being used with larger transformer? Where are you at with your project? you using the UCD 400's too? what PSU? i hope you don't mind the questions. Any other input by anyone also appreciated. Thanks.
Thanks for the advice Allan. What would you recommend for transformers and secondaries? I have read, hopefully understanding it right, that more power with the transformers can really open things up. I just went by the suggestion of what LC audio recommended at their site but that was applying to their zap modules. So would their V4p still suit the project well, being used with larger transformer? Where are you at with your project? you using the UCD 400's too? what PSU? i hope you don't mind the questions. Any other input by anyone also appreciated. Thanks.
Hi,
I dont' mean to be a knob here, but.. seriously, take a month off from your life and give the UCD180 thread and UCD400 threads a very good read, maybe just print them and make it toilet material for a month or two, take notes etc. It will be your build bible, and likely has all your questions answered already.
Then if you have more questions.. people will jump to help.
Offhand I personally feel two 500VA transformers is on the skimpy wimpy side for five UCD400's though.
It might be a good idea just to start with two modules, and work up, the more you include the more things you have to worry about.
Don't forget you might want a soft start feature for your power supplies, DC protection .... is up to you.
Cheers,
Chris
I dont' mean to be a knob here, but.. seriously, take a month off from your life and give the UCD180 thread and UCD400 threads a very good read, maybe just print them and make it toilet material for a month or two, take notes etc. It will be your build bible, and likely has all your questions answered already.
Then if you have more questions.. people will jump to help.
Offhand I personally feel two 500VA transformers is on the skimpy wimpy side for five UCD400's though.
It might be a good idea just to start with two modules, and work up, the more you include the more things you have to worry about.
Don't forget you might want a soft start feature for your power supplies, DC protection .... is up to you.
Cheers,
Chris
Hey Chris.. I have read through most of the UCD threads, but like i said, being a beginner, its tough to follow to some extent. I am more looking for some help on more a kit or complete module pieces to start for a beginner project than doing alot of the parts from scratch. A nice easy way too start. The V4P from LC audio has DC protection built in as well as a softstart circuit. Reading other threads, i read that alot of people experienced better results with larger power supplies but most threads dealt with stereo and not multi channel which i am after. So this is why i ended up posting to start a thread with some info on Multichannel than stereo. So thanks for the info on larger transformers. I too do not intend to be a knob but getting some advice from people like Jan and others told me to start posting for some answers and advice being a beginner and all so here i am! Once i get some recommended peices for this project the real beginning on a practical note can begin. In the meantime if there is other reading than some of the posts which are a bit above a novice i would be happy to get some recommendations.
Thanks, Bill
Thanks, Bill
Hmmm yeah I understand where you're comming from.
I wouldnt' be trying a five channel amp for my first build, and I dont' say that condescendingly, I've yet to build a single one myself..
Have you considered five mono blocks? It'd be hard to screw that up, and you'll have no issues with one module inducing noise in the other through interactions (the heterodyning effect others have mentioned before) as they'll all be spaced nicely, wont' need to worry about shielding every wire.. layout will be easy.
Or two stereo units + 1 mono perhaps?
I'd probably go for that option myself.
How do you intend on dividing up the power between the two transformers you had in mind? Maybe 500VA could be enough, not sure what your requirements are exactly, but if you should expect all five channels to pump out max power cleanly, than yeah I do think two 500VA's are a bit on the low side, and you're certainly correct it's better to have too much in that regard than not enough.
I dont' know enough about the LCaudio supply to be able to comment on it intelligently so I won't.
Please let me know when you get your modules, I'm in Ontario as well and would really like to know what customs and shipping will bend you over for, so to speak. I'd like to get some 400's in the near futur.
Take care,
Chris
I wouldnt' be trying a five channel amp for my first build, and I dont' say that condescendingly, I've yet to build a single one myself..
Have you considered five mono blocks? It'd be hard to screw that up, and you'll have no issues with one module inducing noise in the other through interactions (the heterodyning effect others have mentioned before) as they'll all be spaced nicely, wont' need to worry about shielding every wire.. layout will be easy.
Or two stereo units + 1 mono perhaps?
I'd probably go for that option myself.
How do you intend on dividing up the power between the two transformers you had in mind? Maybe 500VA could be enough, not sure what your requirements are exactly, but if you should expect all five channels to pump out max power cleanly, than yeah I do think two 500VA's are a bit on the low side, and you're certainly correct it's better to have too much in that regard than not enough.
I dont' know enough about the LCaudio supply to be able to comment on it intelligently so I won't.
Please let me know when you get your modules, I'm in Ontario as well and would really like to know what customs and shipping will bend you over for, so to speak. I'd like to get some 400's in the near futur.
Take care,
Chris
Pharsyd,
I cannot help you a lot with the power source, since I took the path of building my PS using the TNT article as a reference. But I agree with classd4sure about the importance of having a slowstart and suficient power output of the transformers. I ended using ESP's circuit as a reference for my softstart, and my main problem is where to buy the caps I want(anybody know where I can order Sikorel caps online?) and how to wire them in a consistent manner. I did take a look at the power supply you are interested, and It seems to be quite complete and well build. It will save you a ton of trouble. Just take notice that, while it is recomended for 5-8 channels, that is not considering the all-channels driven requirement nor the fact that the UCD400 handle double the power of the zap modules... I woul consider two of those PSUs for 5 UCD400 channels running at max power output.
About the transformers, I would try to have, at least 2x 800VA - 40V secondaries for the 5 channels. My own stereo design uses one 800VA per channel, just because the price difference is small.
I cannot help you a lot with the power source, since I took the path of building my PS using the TNT article as a reference. But I agree with classd4sure about the importance of having a slowstart and suficient power output of the transformers. I ended using ESP's circuit as a reference for my softstart, and my main problem is where to buy the caps I want(anybody know where I can order Sikorel caps online?) and how to wire them in a consistent manner. I did take a look at the power supply you are interested, and It seems to be quite complete and well build. It will save you a ton of trouble. Just take notice that, while it is recomended for 5-8 channels, that is not considering the all-channels driven requirement nor the fact that the UCD400 handle double the power of the zap modules... I woul consider two of those PSUs for 5 UCD400 channels running at max power output.
About the transformers, I would try to have, at least 2x 800VA - 40V secondaries for the 5 channels. My own stereo design uses one 800VA per channel, just because the price difference is small.
Great advice guys!
Thanks Crhis and Allan. I think maybe you are right Chris, and going to start with one stereo, and then add from their. I think i will start with getting the chassis, then a couple of UCD 400's, 3 anyways, or if the deal is better in one shot then all 5 and work with the others later, and maybe 1000VA with 40 volt secondary, a PSU complete module with the softstart and DC protection as mentioned, get some experience with the first with some help ofcourse, and then decide which way to go after the first project done. Any recommendations for an appropriate size of chassis for a stereo unit? i really like the par-metal cases, what do you think, is it worth it for the EMI/RFI shielded cases? This gives me a good start. Thanks again.
Bill
Thanks Crhis and Allan. I think maybe you are right Chris, and going to start with one stereo, and then add from their. I think i will start with getting the chassis, then a couple of UCD 400's, 3 anyways, or if the deal is better in one shot then all 5 and work with the others later, and maybe 1000VA with 40 volt secondary, a PSU complete module with the softstart and DC protection as mentioned, get some experience with the first with some help ofcourse, and then decide which way to go after the first project done. Any recommendations for an appropriate size of chassis for a stereo unit? i really like the par-metal cases, what do you think, is it worth it for the EMI/RFI shielded cases? This gives me a good start. Thanks again.
Bill
No time to spare but..
Chassis... make life easy, get the biggest you can, room to build with that way.
EMI /shielding... your bigger concern will be isolating each module from one another... not so much from outside interference.. distance works best... added measures are a bonus but possibly not worth the effort??
1000VA is huge for stereo.. you'll have some room to build but if you want all five again... you may need two of them. I think two 800VA's would be a good recommendation as a bare minimum.
Have fun ordering, customs will be a shock, the shipping charges at Hypex are irrespective of the amount you order so at least in that respect it's cheaper to get them all at once.
Gotta go.
Chassis... make life easy, get the biggest you can, room to build with that way.
EMI /shielding... your bigger concern will be isolating each module from one another... not so much from outside interference.. distance works best... added measures are a bonus but possibly not worth the effort??
1000VA is huge for stereo.. you'll have some room to build but if you want all five again... you may need two of them. I think two 800VA's would be a good recommendation as a bare minimum.
Have fun ordering, customs will be a shock, the shipping charges at Hypex are irrespective of the amount you order so at least in that respect it's cheaper to get them all at once.
Gotta go.
Hello,
I would like to jump in with some small remarks;
- you don't have to worry with EMI of the UcD400, they very low EMI. Please check; http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=616280#post616280
You can mount the module as close as you like, you will not have any problems with EMI or even inteference from all modules. So it's really plug and play. Ofcourse if you use an FM tuner and you have a VERY weak signal you can probably hear the amplifier working. It also not so quit that the EMI level is below the RF noise level.
- The LC 4-pole powersupply is a nice product but it has NO dc protection!
This powersupply will be available soon; http://www.hypex.nl/supply.htm
Regards,
Jan-Peter
I would like to jump in with some small remarks;
- you don't have to worry with EMI of the UcD400, they very low EMI. Please check; http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=616280#post616280
You can mount the module as close as you like, you will not have any problems with EMI or even inteference from all modules. So it's really plug and play. Ofcourse if you use an FM tuner and you have a VERY weak signal you can probably hear the amplifier working. It also not so quit that the EMI level is below the RF noise level.
- The LC 4-pole powersupply is a nice product but it has NO dc protection!
This powersupply will be available soon; http://www.hypex.nl/supply.htm
Regards,
Jan-Peter
one chassis
Hi Jan. So if i get a big enough chassis then, i can possibly fit all 5 into the same chassis without EMI worries then between modules? That would be my preference. Now the PSU you are referring to at your site, been keeping an eye out on it! it will be good enough for 5 UCD's or i am sure i would be better going 2 of them one for each transformer? I am going to start looking at measurements of all these things to make sure they can fit into one chassis as that would be nice. Also then 2 1000VA transformers with 40 volt secondaries, and also add a softstart and so on? Great info people. i am off to a nice start i think. Maybe start with 2 ch 400 UCD and once thats working add from there? Thanks again.
Bill
Hi Jan. So if i get a big enough chassis then, i can possibly fit all 5 into the same chassis without EMI worries then between modules? That would be my preference. Now the PSU you are referring to at your site, been keeping an eye out on it! it will be good enough for 5 UCD's or i am sure i would be better going 2 of them one for each transformer? I am going to start looking at measurements of all these things to make sure they can fit into one chassis as that would be nice. Also then 2 1000VA transformers with 40 volt secondaries, and also add a softstart and so on? Great info people. i am off to a nice start i think. Maybe start with 2 ch 400 UCD and once thats working add from there? Thanks again.
Bill
Bill,
One powersupply with 4 x BHC Slitfoils will be enough for 2 or three UcD400. You can mount all UcD400 modules next to each other if you like. Size of the UcD400 is 75 x 82mm
On the other hand you can overkill the powersupply if you like. The best is to build 5 mono channels, but that's VERY costly!
Personaly I would go for 1 x 1000VA (or 2 x 500VA) and 2 or three powersupplies.
Jan-Peter
One powersupply with 4 x BHC Slitfoils will be enough for 2 or three UcD400. You can mount all UcD400 modules next to each other if you like. Size of the UcD400 is 75 x 82mm
On the other hand you can overkill the powersupply if you like. The best is to build 5 mono channels, but that's VERY costly!
Personaly I would go for 1 x 1000VA (or 2 x 500VA) and 2 or three powersupplies.
Jan-Peter
THanks Jan. So, would i be better going for the front mains, 2 UCD 400's with a 1000VA and one of your PSU and then the centre and two rears for 3 UCD's off of another PSU and 1000VA? would that work well? I have dedicated audio power lines with hubbel cryo outlets, so nothing else on the line other than audio, so both units running off the same outlet to the PSU's! Thanks.
Bill
Bill
Can't wait for the advanced power supplies - I'd love to know the pricing!
I'm at least looking at three channels Ucd 400 with AD8620 on a single power supply with 1000VA.
For stereo I'd just turn off the centre channel UcD.
Later I'd love to add 2 UcD180's with AD for surround on the standard power supply or a selfmade one. Could become 4 UcD180 for 7.1 action. Don't know how much transformer this would need.
Jan-peter, if possible, can you already inform me of price? Thanks!
@pharsyd, seems we have the same endgame, 5 channel UcD!
I'm at least looking at three channels Ucd 400 with AD8620 on a single power supply with 1000VA.
For stereo I'd just turn off the centre channel UcD.
Later I'd love to add 2 UcD180's with AD for surround on the standard power supply or a selfmade one. Could become 4 UcD180 for 7.1 action. Don't know how much transformer this would need.
Jan-peter, if possible, can you already inform me of price? Thanks!
@pharsyd, seems we have the same endgame, 5 channel UcD!
Yves... yes pretty much the same project. what case are you considering? i am going the par-metal case myself. Yes our setups pretty much the same. I am quite excited about it, as i am a total beginner and love taking on challenges like this. My north creek speakers was my first endulge into DIY kit and then my tumult sub, with my EAD TM8000, the 5chUCD400 amp will top it off for now! man, this site is fantastic.
Bill
Bill
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