Hey folks,
Well I finally got my t-amps that I ordered months ago. I reckon I could be the only Irish person to have any of these lovely amps!
I decided to rehouse two of them instantly in a bi-amp configuration. This was done, but due to a bit of stupidity two wires were the wrong way around (I was distracted, then only realised why I was getting a "tapping" noise a good while afterwards).. Basically I think I fried one of them (A in the diagram), as when I reconnected it all up properly only one of the amps was working (both had power though).
I'm currently listening to it on it's own and I must say I'm impressed though!
Anyway - before I strip another board, I'd like to know f my circuit diagram is right/feasible as I really dont want to blow another.
Cheers
Mark
Well I finally got my t-amps that I ordered months ago. I reckon I could be the only Irish person to have any of these lovely amps!
I decided to rehouse two of them instantly in a bi-amp configuration. This was done, but due to a bit of stupidity two wires were the wrong way around (I was distracted, then only realised why I was getting a "tapping" noise a good while afterwards).. Basically I think I fried one of them (A in the diagram), as when I reconnected it all up properly only one of the amps was working (both had power though).
I'm currently listening to it on it's own and I must say I'm impressed though!
Anyway - before I strip another board, I'd like to know f my circuit diagram is right/feasible as I really dont want to blow another.
Cheers
Mark
Hi,
usually real biamping is when you power (let´s say) your tweeter and your midwoofer from separate amplifiers but also feed your amps with a signal coming from an active crossover.
Some passive loudspeakers have an option for biamping but with the passive crossovers still in place.
You have to make clear which way is your intention.
If you want the first option a crossover is missing and obviously you can´t feed both (stereo-)amps with the same signal.
If option 2 is what you want then your diagram should work well enough. (just the 1.5A power supply is definitely too weak for 2 stereo SI´s)
greets
usually real biamping is when you power (let´s say) your tweeter and your midwoofer from separate amplifiers but also feed your amps with a signal coming from an active crossover.
Some passive loudspeakers have an option for biamping but with the passive crossovers still in place.
You have to make clear which way is your intention.
If you want the first option a crossover is missing and obviously you can´t feed both (stereo-)amps with the same signal.
If option 2 is what you want then your diagram should work well enough. (just the 1.5A power supply is definitely too weak for 2 stereo SI´s)
greets
Well the plan is to power my B&W 602's which have 4 binding posts per speaker and I know people who have them bi-amped with the Arcam 8r/8p combination (my original plan, but the SI sounds much better then my 8r)..
Theoretically, yes this isnt real bi-amping, but I was looking for a way to increase the power going to the speakers..
Yeah my worry was with the power supply also - I suppose I'd need at least 1A per Amp?
Theoretically, yes this isnt real bi-amping, but I was looking for a way to increase the power going to the speakers..
Yeah my worry was with the power supply also - I suppose I'd need at least 1A per Amp?
you might also want to be careful as your input impedance will be different and varying driving two SI inputs in parallel. changing the position of the potentiometer directly varies the input impedance.
the case looks awesome. all business and very clean. i love that look. any chance we could see some shots of the inside?
ideally it would ideally be better to let each amp have its own supply, but if you're going to have two run off of one it should have a fairly high current capacity (Ah) or you can expect to recharge it quite often.
the case looks awesome. all business and very clean. i love that look. any chance we could see some shots of the inside?
ideally it would ideally be better to let each amp have its own supply, but if you're going to have two run off of one it should have a fairly high current capacity (Ah) or you can expect to recharge it quite often.
Yes, as the B&W´s aren´t the most efficient you want to get the most out of the SI.
Delivering 1A*12V to the amp you obviously can´t expect to even get 12W (2*6W) out of the amplifier.
If you roughly calculate with 80% efficiency of the SI and want to get 2*10W=20W you´d have to deliver at least 25W to that (one) amplifier which means about 2.1A.
Have a look here. (PSU/AMP3; TA2021 being similar to the TA2024; or take a look in the datasheet of the TA2024 for power requirements as these are just rough calculations)
Being at it: Does anybody how the SI behaves when clipping/running out of "juice"?
greets
the peaks of the waveform distort when the output clips. i've seen it on a scope and it's exactly as they describe in one of their apllication notes.
check this link out: http://www.tripath.com/downloads/an6.pdf
for the other app notes go here: http://www.tripath.com/application.htm
check this link out: http://www.tripath.com/downloads/an6.pdf
for the other app notes go here: http://www.tripath.com/application.htm
Many thanks for the interesting link!.
Back to Mark´s problem.
Do you really think the input impedance is a serious problem with 20k if the CD-Player or whatever is up to the task (which it should)?
I´d just get the proper power supply together, some Y-cables or so to feed both amps with the same signal and just try it...
Back to Mark´s problem.
Do you really think the input impedance is a serious problem with 20k if the CD-Player or whatever is up to the task (which it should)?
I´d just get the proper power supply together, some Y-cables or so to feed both amps with the same signal and just try it...
joensd said:
if the source is up to driving the lower input impedance then it won't be a problem. i would just test it like you mentioned and find out if it is.
on the topic of biamping, i'm in the process of putting together a dual power supply to power two t-amps and will eventually biamp my speakers. i still have to find or make some sort of preamp/active filtering though to be able to make it a true biamped system.
You probably know ESP´s projects.
http://sound.westhost.com/projects-3.htm
I tried the 12dB-XO on stripboard and it worked very nice with the drivers I used (TB W3-871S+woofer).
If you don´t mind some more parts go for the 24dB.
In the end I wanted the XO to be adjustable and bought a Behringer CX-2310 which is really nice for the price.
we all know how that works Thanks for all the help folks!
I've decided to run 1 amp for the minute (even though I've sourced another 1.5A power supply free!) and I must admit that I am enjoying the sound alot.
Seeing as this is my first DIY audio project, I've decided that DIY is definately the way to go! No more buying cables, amps, speakers etc - all upgrades will hopefully be done by me!
Anyway - the little T-amp isnt even run in yet, but I decided to play it through my fathers B&W 802 Matrix 3's and Arcam 6 CD player (using a standard interconnect and Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cable) and I was stunned. On Pink Floyd's "Breathe" (track 2 Dark Side of the moon), you can hear his breathing so much clearer as he runs and the general detail is just astonishing.
Compared to his Meridian 101 Pre/ 2x 105 Monoblock amp set up, I personally preferred the detail, but the tonal balance didnt seem perfect (hopefully due to it only being run for about 10hours at this stage). The monoblocks are 100wpc and they give much stronger bass.. I found the T-amp to be much brighter then the meridian set up. It wasnt fatigueing however, but I like a smooth, rich sound (hence the love affair with arcam) so I'm hoping the T-amp loosens up and becomes more revealing on the bassy side.
Oh - and for anyone wondering how to get the front knob off the pot on the t-amp, it's not glued, all you have to do is get a nail behind it and pull!
I'm still contemplating going down the bi-amp route, but the impedance thing worries me.. How can I solve this issue?
Also - If i just wanted to run them as power amps (with no volume control) - Which im currently doing with my 8r as a pre-amp - would it be sufficient just to put a 10k resister in place of the potentiometer?
I've decided to run 1 amp for the minute (even though I've sourced another 1.5A power supply free!) and I must admit that I am enjoying the sound alot.
Seeing as this is my first DIY audio project, I've decided that DIY is definately the way to go! No more buying cables, amps, speakers etc - all upgrades will hopefully be done by me!
Anyway - the little T-amp isnt even run in yet, but I decided to play it through my fathers B&W 802 Matrix 3's and Arcam 6 CD player (using a standard interconnect and Nordost Blue Heaven speaker cable) and I was stunned. On Pink Floyd's "Breathe" (track 2 Dark Side of the moon), you can hear his breathing so much clearer as he runs and the general detail is just astonishing.
Compared to his Meridian 101 Pre/ 2x 105 Monoblock amp set up, I personally preferred the detail, but the tonal balance didnt seem perfect (hopefully due to it only being run for about 10hours at this stage). The monoblocks are 100wpc and they give much stronger bass.. I found the T-amp to be much brighter then the meridian set up. It wasnt fatigueing however, but I like a smooth, rich sound (hence the love affair with arcam) so I'm hoping the T-amp loosens up and becomes more revealing on the bassy side.
Oh - and for anyone wondering how to get the front knob off the pot on the t-amp, it's not glued, all you have to do is get a nail behind it and pull!
I'm still contemplating going down the bi-amp route, but the impedance thing worries me.. How can I solve this issue?
Also - If i just wanted to run them as power amps (with no volume control) - Which im currently doing with my 8r as a pre-amp - would it be sufficient just to put a 10k resister in place of the potentiometer?
Committed,
Looks like you've got a really nice rig going there. Love the light-up switches on the box.
Your bi-amp should work nicely, but there are a few things you should know, some mentioned here already.
Power:
Yes, you will need more. I suggest a minimum of 2A per unit. Be sure your PSUs have good, large caps. Average draw will be about 300mA on each unit, but peaks will need more.
Wiring:
Be certain that your speakers do not have the ground (or anything else) in common. The S.I. is a bridged amp and will not tolerate having the ouputs tied to any common point.
Signal flow:
You can use a Y cable to drive the 2 amps, but your CD player may not have what it takes to drive 2. A preamp most likely will. If using a preamp, run the S.I. volumes up to max, or bypass them altogether.
Bi-amping:
As explained earlier in this thread, you aren't fully bi-amping, or at least not in the way commonly referred to. You'll need an active crossover between the source and the power amps.
That said, you should still find benefit in "simple" bi-amping. A little more power, perhaps, but mostly the fact that the tweeter amp won't be "polluted" with the back EMF of the woofer amp.
The down side to no active crossover will be that each amp will get the entire signal, it will be the passive crossover that dumps the unneeded portion. An active crossover will send only the part of the signal needed to each amp. No wasted power there.
So go ahead with your bi-amp plan, keeping in mind the above.
It should sound very nice. Move up to an active crossover later, you'll enjoy the improvements.
Be sure to change out those input caps, that's the best thing you can do for the Sonic. Replace the electrolytic power cap on the PCB, too. A Panasonic FM series electrolytic works well here.
Happy listening!
Looks like you've got a really nice rig going there. Love the light-up switches on the box.
Your bi-amp should work nicely, but there are a few things you should know, some mentioned here already.
Power:
Yes, you will need more. I suggest a minimum of 2A per unit. Be sure your PSUs have good, large caps. Average draw will be about 300mA on each unit, but peaks will need more.
Wiring:
Be certain that your speakers do not have the ground (or anything else) in common. The S.I. is a bridged amp and will not tolerate having the ouputs tied to any common point.
Signal flow:
You can use a Y cable to drive the 2 amps, but your CD player may not have what it takes to drive 2. A preamp most likely will. If using a preamp, run the S.I. volumes up to max, or bypass them altogether.
Bi-amping:
As explained earlier in this thread, you aren't fully bi-amping, or at least not in the way commonly referred to. You'll need an active crossover between the source and the power amps.
That said, you should still find benefit in "simple" bi-amping. A little more power, perhaps, but mostly the fact that the tweeter amp won't be "polluted" with the back EMF of the woofer amp.
The down side to no active crossover will be that each amp will get the entire signal, it will be the passive crossover that dumps the unneeded portion. An active crossover will send only the part of the signal needed to each amp. No wasted power there.
So go ahead with your bi-amp plan, keeping in mind the above.
It should sound very nice. Move up to an active crossover later, you'll enjoy the improvements.
Be sure to change out those input caps, that's the best thing you can do for the Sonic. Replace the electrolytic power cap on the PCB, too. A Panasonic FM series electrolytic works well here.
Happy listening!
Fin said:
Check with your ohm meter to see if there is a connection between the Hi & Lo grounds. They should NOT be connected.
Yes, but you don't want to go too small with the input caps or you will be adding another pole to your filter that may push the cutoff higher than you want. Or do strange things to phase. But 0.2uF is probably safe.
Hi Committed!!!
fellow paddy modder here...Im doing a very similar thing to yourself ,im biamping two charlizes..Im using a MDHT Constantine Dac and a Ming Da Mc3 preamp.. Its very impressive to my novice ears and very happy with how its sounding.
Im biamping passively at the moment but was hesitant at doing this initially as theyre so much contracdictory information on the web on the benefits of passive baimping. But I can say without doubt it makes a big difference on mine. All muddyness disapears in the mids lows...in audiophool speak.
btw i have one hooked up to highs and the other for mids/lows
fellow paddy modder here...Im doing a very similar thing to yourself ,im biamping two charlizes..Im using a MDHT Constantine Dac and a Ming Da Mc3 preamp.. Its very impressive to my novice ears and very happy with how its sounding.
Im biamping passively at the moment but was hesitant at doing this initially as theyre so much contracdictory information on the web on the benefits of passive baimping. But I can say without doubt it makes a big difference on mine. All muddyness disapears in the mids lows...in audiophool speak.
btw i have one hooked up to highs and the other for mids/lows
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