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#41 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North American Continent
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Sorry, analogspiceman, it was not my intention if I even thought it were possible to upstage you. I am considering the simplest but most effective circuit for me in my class D amplifier project, given my design constraints, and I am considering possibilities still. I can most easily both limit input amplitude and frequency, but I am considering throwing in a weaker than standard RC damper for good measure. The formula gives an R value of 6.8 and a C of 2.2uF. That may be one reason why I reduced the capacitor very much from optimal, as the power dissipation in the resistor is already about 10 watts, unless I misread the formula. Thanks, best regards.
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#42 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North American Continent
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I wonder if the clipper I tried would track power supply ripple better if filter capacitors were tied from the bases to the power amp supply rails, plus two more from there to ground. It would make a capacitive voltage divider across the resistive one. It might not help, though.
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#43 | |||||
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BE/NL/RW/ZA
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Hello analogspiceman.
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The crucial point is diode recovery of the outgoing fet. As long as this is still happening, dV/dt is very low so controlling it will have no effect on the speed at which the incoming FET tries to pull the outgoing diode open. Needless to say I've got another trick that effectively combats this. I use it on all designs 200W and above. Quote:
![]() Cheers, Bruno |
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#44 | |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: BE/NL/RW/ZA
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Quote:
Let's say I would not recommend it but just for the heck of it, here's how it could be done (mono amplifiers only): 1. Make a normal UcD loop. 2. Feed the comparator output to a state machine that alternatively switches the primary and secondary sides. But here's the annoying bit: 3. Add a protection that will override the comparator output if it hasn't switched for the last few microseconds. Otherwise the primary side will blow instantly when the amp is clipped. I'm not a fan of ampliverters though. The idea is very elegant, but the bilateral switches on the secondary side make things a bit more complicated in reality than in concept. Cheers, Bruno |
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#45 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yahoo, USA
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Hi all,
The attached gif file is the large signal frequency response analysis output from an LTspice simulation of an UcD180 style class d amplifier. This simulation uses the recently derived mathematically correct swept sine time domain LTspice B-source in conjunction with a very fast running LTspice A-device to analyze the large signal behavior of a self oscillating class d amplifier under a variety of dc bias levels (approximates high frequencies riding on a large bass signal). The sine source is swept logarithmically from 2.5kHz to 250kHz (25kHz is center screen). Many weird large signal effects (such as frequency shift, aliasing, pulling and lock) are clearly visible. Note that none of these would be evident in a small signal ac analysis. When properly set up, the A-device simulates a realistic delay while efficiently allowing maximum step size between switching edges and simultaneously capturing edge timing with great fidelity. This makes successive design iterations possible with almost no waiting. Time permitting, I will follow up with a post of a similar example based on my leapfrog design method to compare performance under difficult large signal conditions. I also have a swept sine example of a highly accurate speaker model driven by an amplifier with realistic current and voltage limits modeled. This provocative simulation clearly shows why current limiting (even with perfectly flat and clean clipping) sounds much worse than voltage limiting. Regards -- analogspiceman |
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#46 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yahoo, USA
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Here is the LTspice schematic file (mind the unintended word wrap).
Version 4 SHEET 1 1324 680 WIRE 64 16 64 -64 WIRE 64 128 64 96 WIRE 64 256 64 224 WIRE 64 368 64 336 WIRE 96 -64 64 -64 WIRE 96 224 64 224 WIRE 112 -64 96 -64 WIRE 112 224 96 224 WIRE 224 -64 192 -64 WIRE 224 -64 224 -160 WIRE 240 -160 224 -160 WIRE 256 -64 224 -64 WIRE 256 16 256 -64 WIRE 256 32 256 16 WIRE 256 128 256 96 WIRE 288 -64 256 -64 WIRE 336 -160 320 -160 WIRE 368 16 256 16 WIRE 416 -160 400 -160 WIRE 416 -64 368 -64 WIRE 416 -64 416 -160 WIRE 480 16 432 16 WIRE 544 16 480 16 WIRE 656 16 624 16 WIRE 656 32 656 16 WIRE 656 128 656 96 WIRE 704 16 656 16 WIRE 752 -64 416 -64 WIRE 752 16 704 16 WIRE 752 16 752 -64 WIRE 752 32 752 16 WIRE 752 128 752 112 FLAG 96 -64 i FLAG 96 224 f FLAG 64 368 0 FLAG 64 128 0 FLAG 656 128 0 FLAG 752 128 0 FLAG 480 16 x FLAG 704 16 o FLAG 256 128 0 SYMBOL bv 64 240 R0 WINDOW 3 -24 168 Left 0 SYMATTR Value V=f1*{f2/f1}**(time/Td) SYMATTR InstName Bf SYMBOL bv 64 0 R0 WINDOW 3 -24 168 Left 0 WINDOW 123 -66 214 Left 0 SYMATTR Value V=Vdc+Vp*sin({2*pi*Td/ln(f2/f1)*f1}*{f2/f1}**(time/Td)) SYMATTR InstName Bi SYMBOL ind 528 32 R270 WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 0 WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 0 SYMATTR InstName Lo SYMATTR Value 30µ SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=10m Rpar=10k SYMBOL cap 640 32 R0 SYMATTR InstName Co SYMATTR Value 680n SYMBOL res 736 16 R0 SYMATTR InstName Ro SYMATTR Value 6 SYMBOL res 208 -80 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R2 SYMATTR Value 1k8 SYMBOL res 384 -80 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R1 SYMATTR Value 8k2 SYMBOL res 336 -176 R90 WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName R3 SYMATTR Value 1k0 SYMBOL cap 400 -176 R90 WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 0 WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 0 SYMATTR InstName C1 SYMATTR Value 150p SYMBOL cap 240 32 R0 SYMATTR InstName C2 SYMATTR Value 33p SYMBOL Digital\\inv 368 -48 R0 WINDOW 3 0 112 Left 0 WINDOW 123 0 144 Left 0 WINDOW 39 0 176 Left 0 SYMATTR Value tripdt=1n td=200n SYMATTR Value2 Cout=33n Rout=10m SYMATTR SpiceLine Vhigh=45 Vlow=-45 SYMATTR InstName A2 TEXT 368 384 Left 0 !.tran 0 {Td} 10u uic TEXT 248 320 Left 0 !.param Vdc=0 Vp=1 f1=2k5 f2=250k Td=4m TEXT 472 -224 Left 0 ;To plot frequency on the\nhorizontal axis change\nthe quantity plotted to\n"V(f)*1Hz/1V" and click\n"Logarithmic" TEXT 704 -32 Center 0 ;35kHz TEXT 480 -32 Center 0 ;400kHz TEXT 64 -336 Left 0 ;This circuit demonstrates the use of a swept sine source to test \nthe large signal frequency response of an idealized UcD180 style \nself oscillatiing class D amplifier, as a function of input amplitude,\ninput offset, and output load. TEXT 256 232 Left 0 ;Sweep Parameters:\nf1 = start freq f2= stop freq Td = sweep duration\nVp = sine peak Vdc = sine offset TEXT 408 -392 Center 0 ;Swept Sine Analysis - analogspiceman 2005 TEXT 248 352 Left 0 !.step param Vdc list 0 -4 -8 RECTANGLE Normal 672 -368 144 -416 1 |
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#47 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Yahoo, USA
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Here is a magnified detail of the output waveform that shows how the oscillation frequency decreases as the output approaches the voltage rail.
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#48 |
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Account Disabled
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Hi Analogspiceman,
I'll have to take some time later on and have a really good look at that, but just wanted to say, very nice work and thanks for your continued contributions. Also I like the look of the idealized circuit. No doubt this will have me spending some quality time with LTspice in the near future. Thanks, Chris |
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#49 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: North American Continent
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Hi analogspiceman, Indeed, you do a good job of taking the design evaluation process to a higher level. I plan to keep an eye out for further test results comparing leapfrog and UcD.
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USMPS http://groups.yahoo.com/group/switchmode/ |
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#50 |
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diyAudio Member
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Slovenia
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Hi Analogspiceman,
I am sorry I can not answer your question about capacitor current feedforward before I become more profficient in LT spice. I tested it with your schematics and I think that I will finally switch from Intusoft Ispice. I have another question. On Linear Technology download page there is a program called BodeCAD. From what I can see, it takes LTspice schematic and performs series of transient simulations at different input frequencies thus extracting a Bode plot. Has anyone found this program useful? Best regards, Jaka Racman |
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