Has anybody experience with the ICEpower ASP modules? - Page 3 - diyAudio
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Old 16th February 2005, 09:13 PM   #21
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Hi Jaka,

Wow, thank you.

If it is a thousand watt amp, then it should obviously be expected to sustain 1000W continuously.

Everytime the thousand watt capability of these modules is referenced, everyplace I've seen, it _does_ say "continuous" beside it, but they always leave out the "for 15 seconds, after it's taken out of the freezer" aspect.

These figures seem shockingly low to me, and I was expecting something like this.

40W continuous at 50 deg. C ( a reasonable in-case temp) is a far cry from 1000W, not even close, I wonder what their 200W amp is? Can you show us that same part of the data sheet for that one as well?

It does say it can be increased with heatsinking or forced air, but I think the only way to actually get close to 1000W out of it for any length of time would be liquid nitrogen.

Who wants to use fans and big honking heat sinks just to get a reliable ~100W of power anyway, may as well go with class B right, hell, may as well go with a real supply. One has to note the figure of it's max capability with all the additional cooling isn't given either.

Such embellishment forces me to ask how far they stretched the truth on all their other specs as well.

For instance, what's with the FTC rating?? Bandwidth limited to 3Khz, by protection that..... isn't normally in the amp? So they squeeze a little more power out? Isn't FTC test supposed to be "across the rated bandwidth (so it should be up to 20Khz that's what they said it is), at the specified ratings". I guess they only specificed all the ratings up to 3Khz? Something stinks.

Now, be serious, do you really want your UCD modules rated this way? The cost of a real SMPS that can "do" the job would be insane.

Regards
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Old 16th February 2005, 10:14 PM   #22
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Hi Chris,

datasheets are on their web page. Here is 1000ASP, here is 200ASC and here is 250ASP .

It is interesting that 250W module has almost the same continious ratings as 1000W one.

But the most shocking digram is from the 200ASC datasheet. It shows how do they dimension Zobel network. That is also the reason why 1000ASP has FTC rating only up to 3kHz. See attached picture.

Best regards,

Jaka Racman
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File Type: gif icepowerwillselfdestruct.gif (22.8 KB, 1521 views)
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Old 16th February 2005, 11:38 PM   #23
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Hi,

...and it all comes crashing down. Thanks for those links Jaka, I hadn't seen those before. I'm really taken aback by those.
I'm surprised they haven't yet evolved beyond the obvious problems they have, too busy marketing it perhaps.

At great restraint that's all I'm going to say about it, but it looks as though if anyone truly wants an amp capable of 1000W RMS it's a ZAPpulse for you, for now.

Best regards,
Chris
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Old 17th February 2005, 02:26 AM   #24
ghemink is offline ghemink  Netherlands
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If I read all this, it seems that people are not so enthusiastic about switched power supplies.

Why is that? The reason why I consider them is as follows:

1. better power factor, a linear supply will draw high peak current, especially when big caps in the power supply are used. I live in a 100V country, so those big current peaks can be an issue and limiting for the performance
2. regulated output voltage, so even if my 100V that I get from the outlet is not that stable or hard, I will still have a pretty stable supply voltage for the power amps
3. I have to feed many amps since I use them in an active system, this means many power supply caps that need to be charged, and therefore, high current peaks as mentioned in 1 as well, when a linear supply is used

Actually, I`m also considering to make a regulated supply (conventional) using the THEL regulator modules. However, those modules may not be so easy to get since I`m located in Japan, can`t order with credit card and so on. What I would do with those modules is to have relatively small caps in front of the regulator and a 20V higher input voltage than needed at the output. The voltage before the regulator will have quite a lot of ripple because the caps would be relatively small, however, that ripple will be regulated away. So after the regulator, I can have bigger caps and a nice stable voltage that is almost load and AC outlet independent. That way, I can again reduce the peak currents that are drawn from my wall outlet.

Any comments on the above ideas? Any way to get some SMPS for experimental purposes? An easy way to get those THEL regulators? When can we have an Hypex switched power supply? These could be as simple as a bridged UcD module, if the only objective is to have a regulated supply (will have no power factor correction) or do I see these things to simple.

Best regards

Gertjan
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Old 17th February 2005, 06:52 AM   #25
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It IS possible to make decent SMPS but this is definitely not an easy task.
I once heard an amp (that by itself was class AB) that is fed bay a beefy SMPS and this thing had steam at the low end while sounding very effortless and clean. It was a Chord BTW.

Regards

Charles
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Old 17th February 2005, 06:57 AM   #26
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Anybody have an idea what Jeff Rowland is doing with the ICEpower 1000ASP to achieve such specs?


Model 501 Specs

Output Power
Continuous RMS

8 ohms 500 Watts
4 ohms 1000 Watts

see

http://www.jeffrowland.com/Model%20501%20Page.htm
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Old 17th February 2005, 09:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by phase_accurate
It IS possible to make decent SMPS but this is definitely not an easy task.
I once heard an amp (that by itself was class AB) that is fed bay a beefy SMPS and this thing had steam at the low end while sounding very effortless and clean. It was a Chord BTW.

Regards

Charles
Ok, I'll allow many things to pass, but not this. Good Bass, from a Chord? You've got to be joking. They have no bass and an ear bleeding top end.

Take it from someone with more experience with Chord than anyone else araound ...They use a very noisy unregulated SMPS that has over 4uF of X capacitance across the mains to snub it's own switching noise. The AB amplifier itself is not biased properly. in fact, the bias changes with PSU fluctuations (Ever heard of a VBE multiplier... They haven't!) causing amplifitude modulation distortion. The output MOSFET's are biased at a ridiculous 50mA for 32 devices. (Now there is no way that is class AB) and the units are usually shipped with nearly 2v of HF oscillation. Above 100kHz the amplifier distortion is so bad that it folds down at a near 1:1 ratio, so good luck with an RF nearby!

Charles, if you heard good bass on a Chord, then please, don't ever trust your ears again!
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Old 17th February 2005, 09:42 AM   #28
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"...and it all comes crashing down"?

You've written off the ASP technology before even testing it? That's funny!
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Old 17th February 2005, 11:20 AM   #29
jazzy is offline jazzy  Slovenia
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Default icepower

We are using icepower modules( 250A, 500A and 1000A) in our production, almost one year with " zero defect"!
rgds
jazzy
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Old 17th February 2005, 02:38 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by unclemonty
"...and it all comes crashing down"?

You've written off the ASP technology before even testing it? That's funny!
I'm pleased that you're amused.

I'm amused that you want to bi-amp these "1000W RMS" "load independant" modules, should get you a clean 250W for at least 20 seconds, if you open the window, for a subwoofer anyway. Now _that_ is amusing.

Further to my amusement, statements like "Seems to have limitlesss power & authority, and a load of detail too." Just read the data sheet and tell me how limitless the power really is. I know, "seems" was the key word right? So it has a bit of dynamic headroom, so what, that term went out of style right along with PMPO did it not? In reality, it can't even come close to half of what their rating claims, let alone across the audio band. So yeah, I'll write that off and never look back. I think you're going after a hugely expensive and sorely dissapointing 300W at best.

Gertjan,

No problems with a SMPS here, at least not if they actually deliver as claimed, like they should, it doesn't save on caps apperently, just on size and weight of transformer. I just wouldn't want to see it come on the module, possibly limiting performance (as below), certainly limiting peoples choices, and causing the price to skyrocket, inversly to reliability, which will plummet. That's only my opinion.

Maybe as an additional module it would be alright, but it might be hard to use properly that way. I know Bruno got funding for working on a real SMPS for audio, his opinion was that non existed that can really do the job, would be most interesting to see what his results were one way or the other.

I support your DIY supply effort.

I'll have to read that SMPS thread, there's alot of ideas in there.
Lots of them with respect to PFC as well. Analogspiceman even provided a few circuits with the UCD in mind.

Regards
Chris
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