Zappulse module suitable for bass guitar stage amplification?
Hello,
Would anyone (with more electronical knowledge than me...) consider the Zappulse module suitable for amplifying a bassguitar on stage? The power seems OK (> 700 W in 4 Ohm on a creditcard sized IC!) and the idea of building a bass instrument stage amplifier with this module is very appealing to me. However, at the same time I realize that home audio systems have considerably different requirements than stage gear, especially when it comes to bass amplification, which requires very robust lows and mid-lows and crunchie/crispy softened highs. I read on this forum that the bass is a little thin, which would make the module not usable. On on the other hand, on the LCAudio site the module is said to have an almost tube-like high frequency response, which is ideal for bass.
What do you think, would it be worth a try?
Thanks in advance,
Joep
Hello,
Would anyone (with more electronical knowledge than me...) consider the Zappulse module suitable for amplifying a bassguitar on stage? The power seems OK (> 700 W in 4 Ohm on a creditcard sized IC!) and the idea of building a bass instrument stage amplifier with this module is very appealing to me. However, at the same time I realize that home audio systems have considerably different requirements than stage gear, especially when it comes to bass amplification, which requires very robust lows and mid-lows and crunchie/crispy softened highs. I read on this forum that the bass is a little thin, which would make the module not usable. On on the other hand, on the LCAudio site the module is said to have an almost tube-like high frequency response, which is ideal for bass.
What do you think, would it be worth a try?
Thanks in advance,
Joep
From the experiments I've done so far, bass from the Zappulse is fairly dependent on the robustness of your power supply, i.e., bigger transformers and bigger capacitors = more bass and it's tight too. Not so sure about the effect of the bigger tranformers and capacitors on the mids and highs though, some things seem better, some worse, more experimentation required. 
Re: Zappulse module suitable for bass guitar stage amplification?
I`m not sure about "on stage" but i`ve tried mine Zappulse at home With my bass guitar and it was really something else.Tightness , details and power that`s what its all about,you need to buy a very expensive bass guitar amplifier to beat this.Joep Zonnebloem said:
Thanks for the input
Thank you all for your encouraging replies. I am pleased that nobody thinks it is a silly idea. I have been playing with the thought for some time know and I am just so curious whether a small thing like this module is able to drive one or more heavey bass cabinets whith a good sound. For those who know about bassguitar; I am currently playing on an SWR redhead combo with an Eden 4 Ohm 2x12 inch extension cabinet or a Trace Elliot AH300 whith 4 x 12 inch 4 Ohm, so I would like to test the module on the preamps of the SWR and the Trace Elliot and on those cabinets.
I am going to search some more information on the electronical stuff (any suggestions?) and I will keep you informed on the "project".
Thank you all for your encouraging replies. I am pleased that nobody thinks it is a silly idea. I have been playing with the thought for some time know and I am just so curious whether a small thing like this module is able to drive one or more heavey bass cabinets whith a good sound. For those who know about bassguitar; I am currently playing on an SWR redhead combo with an Eden 4 Ohm 2x12 inch extension cabinet or a Trace Elliot AH300 whith 4 x 12 inch 4 Ohm, so I would like to test the module on the preamps of the SWR and the Trace Elliot and on those cabinets.
I am going to search some more information on the electronical stuff (any suggestions?) and I will keep you informed on the "project".
100K Oscillation on 2.2SE modules
I finally completed the 2 channel version of the amp with the 2.2SE modules (PS parts procurement problems + finding the time). We are currently using a conventional power supply at the 42.5 VAC windings that Lars recommended.
Both channels work in the respect that they amplify the signal. I brought the amplifier to a trusted high quality service center to verify specifications.
The tech tested both channels and found each channel producing a noticeable 100K oscillation on each respective output with loading at both 4 and 8 Ohm loads.
Channel 1's oscillation level measured 3.399RMS and Channel 2's oscillation level measured 4.20RMS.
Output power was less than what was stated on the specifications but it is probably due to the oscillation issue causing early clipping.
We tried to isolate the problem without success. We feel confident that the problem is occurring in the 2.2SE modules and not from the PS/input/output wiring or power supply.
The tech's findings and notes are as follows:
Technical Service Time - Scope and evaluate supplied amp 0.5 65.00 32.50T
MALFUNCTION FOUND There is a 100kHz oscillation on both
channels. The power supply is stable. The oscillation is present
even with inputs shorted.
Output wattage specs:
449 into 4 ohms
Oscillation level is 3.399 -Channel 1 - 8 ohms
4.20 - Channel 2 - 8 ohms
No abnormal DC offset.
The oscillation would modulate on low frequency waveforms and
exaggerate as amp approached peak output.
Bench tested a QSC RMX2450 as a control comparison amp.
We would appreciate Lar's, Henrik's, or anyone in the forum's response and possibe resolution.
Also what is the status on the availability of a SMPS for these modules?
tgb
I finally completed the 2 channel version of the amp with the 2.2SE modules (PS parts procurement problems + finding the time). We are currently using a conventional power supply at the 42.5 VAC windings that Lars recommended.
Both channels work in the respect that they amplify the signal. I brought the amplifier to a trusted high quality service center to verify specifications.
The tech tested both channels and found each channel producing a noticeable 100K oscillation on each respective output with loading at both 4 and 8 Ohm loads.
Channel 1's oscillation level measured 3.399RMS and Channel 2's oscillation level measured 4.20RMS.
Output power was less than what was stated on the specifications but it is probably due to the oscillation issue causing early clipping.
We tried to isolate the problem without success. We feel confident that the problem is occurring in the 2.2SE modules and not from the PS/input/output wiring or power supply.
The tech's findings and notes are as follows:
Technical Service Time - Scope and evaluate supplied amp 0.5 65.00 32.50T
MALFUNCTION FOUND There is a 100kHz oscillation on both
channels. The power supply is stable. The oscillation is present
even with inputs shorted.
Output wattage specs:
449 into 4 ohms
Oscillation level is 3.399 -Channel 1 - 8 ohms
4.20 - Channel 2 - 8 ohms
No abnormal DC offset.
The oscillation would modulate on low frequency waveforms and
exaggerate as amp approached peak output.
Bench tested a QSC RMX2450 as a control comparison amp.
We would appreciate Lar's, Henrik's, or anyone in the forum's response and possibe resolution.
Also what is the status on the availability of a SMPS for these modules?
tgb
Re: Thanks for the input
Hi Joep,
You may also want to take a look at ICEpower modules. The ASP series gives you modules with output power ranging from 200 to 1000W. These modules have on board switching power supply, have the possibility to use balanced input and have all kinds of protections on board and were designed for professional applications. You may want to check out the icepower web-site.
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/sw1022.asp
You can download PDF files with documentation there as well. I don't have them, but for your on-stage application they maybe the right thing. They probably don't sel for DIY, but you maybe able to get some somewhere? One way to get them is to check out the acoustic reality web-site. These guys built these modules in a case (that you probably don't need) and put some extra electronics in there it seems.
http://www.acoustic-reality.com/
Best regards
Gertjan
Joep Zonnebloem said:
Hi Joep,
You may also want to take a look at ICEpower modules. The ASP series gives you modules with output power ranging from 200 to 1000W. These modules have on board switching power supply, have the possibility to use balanced input and have all kinds of protections on board and were designed for professional applications. You may want to check out the icepower web-site.
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/sw1022.asp
You can download PDF files with documentation there as well. I don't have them, but for your on-stage application they maybe the right thing. They probably don't sel for DIY, but you maybe able to get some somewhere? One way to get them is to check out the acoustic reality web-site. These guys built these modules in a case (that you probably don't need) and put some extra electronics in there it seems.
http://www.acoustic-reality.com/
Best regards
Gertjan
Re: 100K Oscillation on 2.2SE modules
Hi TGB,
That's indeed a mall-function, they should oscillate at around 400kHz. Are you sure they oscillated at 100kHz???? Because the output filter on the ZAPpulse rolls-off with 12dB/Oct from 150kHz or so, that 4V output oscillation sounds about right in amplitude if it were at 400-450kHz.
Best regards
Gertjan
tgb said:
Hi TGB,
That's indeed a mall-function, they should oscillate at around 400kHz. Are you sure they oscillated at 100kHz???? Because the output filter on the ZAPpulse rolls-off with 12dB/Oct from 150kHz or so, that 4V output oscillation sounds about right in amplitude if it were at 400-450kHz.
Best regards
Gertjan
)Thanks ghemink for the reply, I called the Tech to verify
Gertjan,
Thanks for the reply! I checked with the Tech at the service center and he assured me that the oscillation was centered at 100KHz. He agrees with you that if it were at 400-450K and with the 12dB filter scheme this would knock it down to an acceptable level but that is not the case in this situation.
I had emailed Lars last week and I am waiting for a reply. He may be out of town, as I know that the CES trade show ended early last week.
At this point I would ask to exchange the modules to see if I get the same conditions (which I expect when retesting it would not happen).
I talked to DIY Cable, the U.S. dealer and he deferred me Lars. I hope I can get this worked out very soon as I have a few possible projects that I would like to use these modules for. From the forum it seems that Lars and LC Audio have an excellent rap and following.
Anybody else have any problems like this?
Again thank for the reply,
tgb
Gertjan,
Thanks for the reply! I checked with the Tech at the service center and he assured me that the oscillation was centered at 100KHz. He agrees with you that if it were at 400-450K and with the 12dB filter scheme this would knock it down to an acceptable level but that is not the case in this situation.
I had emailed Lars last week and I am waiting for a reply. He may be out of town, as I know that the CES trade show ended early last week.
At this point I would ask to exchange the modules to see if I get the same conditions (which I expect when retesting it would not happen).
I talked to DIY Cable, the U.S. dealer and he deferred me Lars. I hope I can get this worked out very soon as I have a few possible projects that I would like to use these modules for. From the forum it seems that Lars and LC Audio have an excellent rap and following.
Anybody else have any problems like this?
Again thank for the reply,
tgb
Hi,
I Read on www.lcaudio.dk that the new version of zappulse 2.3 is soon ready.
Is it excatly ?
Do you have informations ?
thanks
Sebastien
I Read on www.lcaudio.dk that the new version of zappulse 2.3 is soon ready.
Is it excatly ?
Do you have informations ?
thanks
Sebastien
Bass guitar amplifier
richie00boy, tim pattinson : Maybe I will try the ucd module too, I don't know; I have to study some more on electronics first, if I find the time. At the moment I feel like ordering all kinds of modules but I know that by the time they arrive I maybe all consumed by, say, jet engines, or the stone age, or Dutch politics (which is not very likely.. ). Anyway, for the time being I am just orientating.
GregD : Could you please tell me more about your experiments? And what speakers did you use? I had thought that the bigger en more solid the power supply, the better bass performance you get, but other people say that this factor should not be overrated.
sven-ake : I believe you instantly, after all, the best bassplayers live in Scandinavie I think tightness is essential in a bass tone, but it must be able to move a lot of air too, through rigid heavey bass speakers, and still keep its warmth... Btw, what bassguitar do you play?
km : Thanks, I visited your website cadaudio and sent you an email.
ghemink (hallo): I had found the ICEpower modules earlier, but the B&O website said that they were not to be sold to private persons. When you go to the "request information" page, your company website appears to be a mandatory field... However, on cadaudio.dk (see km's message) they apparently can be purchased. On http://www.classd.org/indexold.html I found a very negative review on them, though.
Bottomline: I don't know and I will not know before I have tried and heard, so that is going to be my next step. I will try and just see what comes on my way...
richie00boy, tim pattinson : Maybe I will try the ucd module too, I don't know; I have to study some more on electronics first, if I find the time. At the moment I feel like ordering all kinds of modules but I know that by the time they arrive I maybe all consumed by, say, jet engines, or the stone age, or Dutch politics (which is not very likely..
). Anyway, for the time being I am just orientating.GregD : Could you please tell me more about your experiments? And what speakers did you use? I had thought that the bigger en more solid the power supply, the better bass performance you get, but other people say that this factor should not be overrated.
sven-ake : I believe you instantly, after all, the best bassplayers live in Scandinavie
I think tightness is essential in a bass tone, but it must be able to move a lot of air too, through rigid heavey bass speakers, and still keep its warmth... Btw, what bassguitar do you play?km : Thanks, I visited your website cadaudio and sent you an email.
ghemink (hallo): I had found the ICEpower modules earlier, but the B&O website said that they were not to be sold to private persons. When you go to the "request information" page, your company website appears to be a mandatory field... However, on cadaudio.dk (see km's message) they apparently can be purchased. On http://www.classd.org/indexold.html I found a very negative review on them, though.
Bottomline: I don't know and I will not know before I have tried and heard, so that is going to be my next step. I will try and just see what comes on my way...
About the ZAP 2.3:
I ordered the 2.2 about a week ago but never got any reply so I called them last friday. They told me that the new module would be delivered to them this monday and be shipped to me late this week.
In other words the new module is what is shipped opn all orders from the last week or so.
And now the important thing, the difference! No idea sorry ...
I ordered the 2.2 about a week ago but never got any reply so I called them last friday. They told me that the new module would be delivered to them this monday and be shipped to me late this week.
In other words the new module is what is shipped opn all orders from the last week or so.
And now the important thing, the difference! No idea sorry ...
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