ICE/ class d amps used for PA/musical instruments? - Page 7 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Amplifiers > Class D

Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th March 2005, 11:37 AM   #61
diyAudio Member
 
Workhorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Cool Hello Gentlemen

Quote:
Originally posted by JensRasmussen
As I (luckily) have no professional affiliation with any HIFI manufacturer, I have no access to audio analyser equipment. I can, however, offer a fair and unbiased test of any PWM modules or amps. Anyone interested in participating can contact me when and if this opportunity arises.

\Jens
Hi Jens ,
there's no need for professional affiliation. You can simply test the "Netherland" amp and "denmark"[LC&KM] in terms of acoustic listening and dynamism at transient attack. A simple listening could certainly evaluate the performance.


Quote:
Originally posted by Jan-Peter
Hi Jens,

I can borrow you two UcD400 for a sonic test against other Amplifiers (Class-D or Analog I don't mind), if you like.

We did measured a lot of other modules on our AP System 2, and some modules are better as others. Our modules are performing quite well, I can say........

Regards,

Jan-Peter
Hi Jan-Peter ,
is it ok for you if i call you "Netherland Friend"

Thats the competitive spirit for accepting challanges!

regards,
Kanwar
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 12:12 PM   #62
ghemink is offline ghemink  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Japan
Quote:
Originally posted by Joep Zonnebloem


I asked mr. Madsen nicely and he replied, also nicely, that he would not sell it without his (or ICpower's) modules, for the reason that those are fullbridged and thus do not suffer from power supply pumping, making them more suitable for an SMPS than halfbridged modules like UcD and Zappulse. Maybe they aren't bad at all, these cadaudio's; I'm very curious for JensRasmussen's test. I hope he is able to include the Zap's in the test too. I just build an amplifier for bassguitar with a Zap and a -77/+77 PSU (Transf. 1000VA). It sounds brilliant; I only need a better matching preamp to get the full power (some 600-650 W, i guess).
By the way, i am at least as curious for your findings with the A&T SMPS. I am strongly considering ordering 1 or two of those. So please keep us updated on your findings...

edit: mr. Reinhard Metz of A and T Labs mailed me that he thought the Zap's and the SMPS would go well together and make for a nice lightweight design. I don't think he is trying to sell them at all costs since the kits are more like a 'hobby outgrowth' and his main business is consulting...

Mr Madsen is correct about the concern for power supply pumping as these SMPS supplies usually have relatively small caps at the output. It is a bit of a concern for me too, that is why for the woofers, I plan to use two UcD400's bridged so that I don't get pumping for sure, and I also want to have a bit more power than one UcD can deliver. For the amps for mid and tweeter, I'm not concerned about them causing any pumping. An SMPS may not like it when you increase the caps at the output. The A&T SMPS has 1000uF at the output. That maybe a bit on the low side when you output 20Hz at full power with an unbridged amp. Something like 4700uF maybe quite OK I expect. I will check with the A&T supply if it is stable when I increase the caps.

Best regards

Gertjan
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 12:51 PM   #63
km is offline km
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: dk
hi.

>I asked mr. Madsen nicely and he replied, also nicely, that he would not sell it without his (or ICpower's) modules, for the reason that those are fullbridged and thus do not suffer from power supply pumping, making them more suitable for an SMPS than halfbridged modules like UcD and Zappulse. Maybe they aren't bad at all, these cadaudio's....>

yes we did have a chat about this but i think you forget a point or two that i would like to add.

i think you will agree that when you get the amp and the supply from same source tested to work together its far better than from different sources, if you have a problem you are not "left in the middle".

power supply pumping can show to be a very real problem with high power outputs at low frequencies like in a bass amplifier.

another point you should be aware of is that some of the pwm amps, specially the halfbridge types are very sensitive to power supply noise and perform best with a regulated power supply simply because they have low power supply ripple rejection.

at clipping or at the unset of clipping you can experience unstability in the amp and in the switch mode supply powering it with unwanted effects on the amp, the supply and the loudspeaker.

tightly regulated switch mode supplies help with the noise issue but are normally not well suited to the very fluctuating load a pwm amd wih a music signal is, a loosely regulated supply and a pwm amplifier with high supply ripple(and noise) rejection is the scheme we prefer.

best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk

ps. let us hear your experience with the lc audio driven by the a&t smps.

what preamp do you use?
being a bassplayer (too) for some 30 years + i have a bit of experience with different bass amplifiers....
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 12:59 PM   #64
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Haarlem
Send a message via AIM to Joep Zonnebloem Send a message via MSN to Joep Zonnebloem Send a message via Yahoo to Joep Zonnebloem
edit: deleted, was nonsense
__________________
-
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 01:09 PM   #65
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Haarlem
Send a message via AIM to Joep Zonnebloem Send a message via MSN to Joep Zonnebloem Send a message via Yahoo to Joep Zonnebloem
Quote:
Originally posted by km
....................... Additional comments on mail exchange.....
ps. let us hear your experience with the lc audio driven by the a&t smps.

what preamp do you use?
being a bassplayer (too) for some 30 years + i have a bit of experience with different bass amplifiers....
Thanks for the additional comments, you're right.

Untill now I have tried a simple Fishman BII preamp (which is not powerfull enough, I suspect) and a Hartke preamp, which gives already much better results. I will try a Trace Elliot GP 11 and the preamp of my SWR Redhead later today. I am only concerned about possible DC that the (tube-driven) Redhaed preamp may sent to the input.

I will keep you updated.

Best regards, Joep

EDIT: PS I'm aware of the possibility that your modules may no match the specs of the UCD's or ZAP's fully, but that the differences may be audible only in specific high end configurations in a good acoustical environment. For sound reinforcement and PA applications they may have no relevance...
__________________
-
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 01:37 PM   #66
ghemink is offline ghemink  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Japan
Quote:
Originally posted by km
hi.

>I asked mr. Madsen nicely and he replied, also nicely, that he would not sell it without his (or ICpower's) modules, for the reason that those are fullbridged and thus do not suffer from power supply pumping, making them more suitable for an SMPS than halfbridged modules like UcD and Zappulse. Maybe they aren't bad at all, these cadaudio's....>

yes we did have a chat about this but i think you forget a point or two that i would like to add.

i think you will agree that when you get the amp and the supply from same source tested to work together its far better than from different sources, if you have a problem you are not "left in the middle".

power supply pumping can show to be a very real problem with high power outputs at low frequencies like in a bass amplifier.

another point you should be aware of is that some of the pwm amps, specially the halfbridge types are very sensitive to power supply noise and perform best with a regulated power supply simply because they have low power supply ripple rejection.

at clipping or at the unset of clipping you can experience unstability in the amp and in the switch mode supply powering it with unwanted effects on the amp, the supply and the loudspeaker.

tightly regulated switch mode supplies help with the noise issue but are normally not well suited to the very fluctuating load a pwm amd wih a music signal is, a loosely regulated supply and a pwm amplifier with high supply ripple(and noise) rejection is the scheme we prefer.

best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk

ps. let us hear your experience with the lc audio driven by the a&t smps.

what preamp do you use?
being a bassplayer (too) for some 30 years + i have a bit of experience with different bass amplifiers....

I know of the above concerns that you mention, as the A&T supply is being used with a Class AB amp, I expect it to have suitable regulation. My only worry is power supply pumping which will be a non issue when using bridged amps for the woofers.

Anyway, I would have preferred to be able to buy a finished module from you. Now I have to climb in the soldering iron myself. I have to admit that I did not ask you to sell me a supply, I read the small print on your website which was enough for me not to try.

Best regards

Gertjan
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 01:37 PM   #67
km is offline km
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: dk
hi.

i think you will find that the gp11 has quite a low output, it seems like they settled for 300mv output and same input for their power amps, meaning they work fine together but not well with other power amps.....

i think our modules match (at least) the specs and sound quality of the lc audio modules.

about icepower and ucd they may have better specs , if that translates into better sound quality i dont know.

i have heard what several people say comparing our modules to the icepower ones, so far i have heard about no comparison to the ucd modules.

i agree that for pa systems and other proaudio uses other things than low thd plays a very important role, like protection circuits , ruggedness etc ,

let us know your experience with other preamps.

long time ago "a person" was banned here for advocating a direct ac driven amplifier because of the danger , working with switch mode supplies is very much the same thing....

best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk

ps. if you have ideas for a high quality bass preamp you dont find "out there" feel free to send me a mail....
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th March 2005, 02:31 PM   #68
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Haarlem
Send a message via AIM to Joep Zonnebloem Send a message via MSN to Joep Zonnebloem Send a message via Yahoo to Joep Zonnebloem
Quote:
Originally posted by km


ps. if you have ideas for a high quality bass preamp you dont find "out there" feel free to send me a mail....

Hi Karsten,

Eventually, I am considering using a BassPod XT Pro (by Line6), only, I have no clue about its output voltage. It has a stereo output to which I could connect two modules for a "bi-amping" system. Maybe I could even modify the regular version (so, not the 19 " Pro-version). I think the additional features of the Pro do not justify the difference in price (> 350 Euro!), apart from the fact that its in a nice 19" housing...

Best regards, Joep
__________________
-
  Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 06:45 PM   #69
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Default Re: I'm game........

Quote:
Originally posted by Sheriff
Hi KM,

and have used ICEpower 500A modules.


I have here a 1.8KW SMPS with PFC with an 80V main rail that was done for the ICEpower 500A module - i guess that this could be used to evaluate your modules too?

Cheers

Sheriff

A Question to Sheriff:

I want to buy some ICEpower modules, especialy the ICEpower 1000ASP, wich have the switching psu and amp on one print,and delivers 1000w@4R

Please can you let me know were i can buy thes ICEpower modules? I want to make a comparison in sound about the ICEpower, ZapPulse and the UCD-amps. Only i don't know were i can buy the ICEpower modules (and their switching Psu)

Regards
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd March 2005, 04:55 PM   #70
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Irvine California
Quote:
Please can you let me know were i can buy thes ICEpower modules?
Speakerpower Inc. manufactures complete turnkey self power amplifier modules for the professional loudspeaker market using ICEpower, DSP, transformer isolated input, etc. Please check out the web site www.speakerpower.net for details.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Signals from musical instruments in time domain PMA Everything Else 41 27th November 2007 09:31 AM
Musical instruments and equipment one_happy_hippy Swap Meet 0 10th August 2004 04:21 PM
Call for Musical Instruments forum board bob4 Instruments and Amps 41 22nd November 2002 09:36 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 07:32 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2