Hello Gentlemen
Hi Jens ,
there's no need for professional affiliation. You can simply test the "Netherland" amp and "denmark"[LC&KM] in terms of acoustic listening and dynamism at transient attack. A simple listening could certainly evaluate the performance.
Hi Jan-Peter ,
is it ok for you if i call you "Netherland Friend"
Thats the competitive spirit for accepting challanges!
regards,
Kanwar
JensRasmussen said:
Hi Jens ,
there's no need for professional affiliation. You can simply test the "Netherland" amp and "denmark"[LC&KM] in terms of acoustic listening and dynamism at transient attack. A simple listening could certainly evaluate the performance.
Jan-Peter said:Hi Jens,
I can borrow you two UcD400 for a sonic test against other Amplifiers (Class-D or Analog I don't mind), if you like.
We did measured a lot of other modules on our AP System 2, and some modules are better as others. Our modules are performing quite well, I can say........
Regards,
Jan-Peter
Hi Jan-Peter ,
is it ok for you if i call you "Netherland Friend"
Thats the competitive spirit for accepting challanges!
regards,
Kanwar
Joep Zonnebloem said:
Mr Madsen is correct about the concern for power supply pumping as these SMPS supplies usually have relatively small caps at the output. It is a bit of a concern for me too, that is why for the woofers, I plan to use two UcD400's bridged so that I don't get pumping for sure, and I also want to have a bit more power than one UcD can deliver. For the amps for mid and tweeter, I'm not concerned about them causing any pumping. An SMPS may not like it when you increase the caps at the output. The A&T SMPS has 1000uF at the output. That maybe a bit on the low side when you output 20Hz at full power with an unbridged amp. Something like 4700uF maybe quite OK I expect. I will check with the A&T supply if it is stable when I increase the caps.
Best regards
Gertjan
hi.
>I asked mr. Madsen nicely and he replied, also nicely, that he would not sell it without his (or ICpower's) modules, for the reason that those are fullbridged and thus do not suffer from power supply pumping, making them more suitable for an SMPS than halfbridged modules like UcD and Zappulse. Maybe they aren't bad at all, these cadaudio's....>
yes we did have a chat about this but i think you forget a point or two that i would like to add.
i think you will agree that when you get the amp and the supply from same source tested to work together its far better than from different sources, if you have a problem you are not "left in the middle".
power supply pumping can show to be a very real problem with high power outputs at low frequencies like in a bass amplifier.
another point you should be aware of is that some of the pwm amps, specially the halfbridge types are very sensitive to power supply noise and perform best with a regulated power supply simply because they have low power supply ripple rejection.
at clipping or at the unset of clipping you can experience unstability in the amp and in the switch mode supply powering it with unwanted effects on the amp, the supply and the loudspeaker.
tightly regulated switch mode supplies help with the noise issue but are normally not well suited to the very fluctuating load a pwm amd wih a music signal is, a loosely regulated supply and a pwm amplifier with high supply ripple(and noise) rejection is the scheme we prefer.
best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
ps. let us hear your experience with the lc audio driven by the a&t smps.
what preamp do you use?
being a bassplayer (too) for some 30 years + i have a bit of experience with different bass amplifiers....
>I asked mr. Madsen nicely and he replied, also nicely, that he would not sell it without his (or ICpower's) modules, for the reason that those are fullbridged and thus do not suffer from power supply pumping, making them more suitable for an SMPS than halfbridged modules like UcD and Zappulse. Maybe they aren't bad at all, these cadaudio's....>
yes we did have a chat about this but i think you forget a point or two that i would like to add.
i think you will agree that when you get the amp and the supply from same source tested to work together its far better than from different sources, if you have a problem you are not "left in the middle".
power supply pumping can show to be a very real problem with high power outputs at low frequencies like in a bass amplifier.
another point you should be aware of is that some of the pwm amps, specially the halfbridge types are very sensitive to power supply noise and perform best with a regulated power supply simply because they have low power supply ripple rejection.
at clipping or at the unset of clipping you can experience unstability in the amp and in the switch mode supply powering it with unwanted effects on the amp, the supply and the loudspeaker.
tightly regulated switch mode supplies help with the noise issue but are normally not well suited to the very fluctuating load a pwm amd wih a music signal is, a loosely regulated supply and a pwm amplifier with high supply ripple(and noise) rejection is the scheme we prefer.
best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
ps. let us hear your experience with the lc audio driven by the a&t smps.
what preamp do you use?
being a bassplayer (too) for some 30 years + i have a bit of experience with different bass amplifiers....
km said:
Thanks for the additional comments, you're right.
Untill now I have tried a simple Fishman BII preamp (which is not powerfull enough, I suspect) and a Hartke preamp, which gives already much better results. I will try a Trace Elliot GP 11 and the preamp of my SWR Redhead later today. I am only concerned about possible DC that the (tube-driven) Redhaed preamp may sent to the input.
I will keep you updated.
Best regards, Joep
EDIT: PS I'm aware of the possibility that your modules may no match the specs of the UCD's or ZAP's fully, but that the differences may be audible only in specific high end configurations in a good acoustical environment. For sound reinforcement and PA applications they may have no relevance...
km said:
I know of the above concerns that you mention, as the A&T supply is being used with a Class AB amp, I expect it to have suitable regulation. My only worry is power supply pumping which will be a non issue when using bridged amps for the woofers.
Anyway, I would have preferred to be able to buy a finished module from you. Now I have to climb in the soldering iron myself. I have to admit that I did not ask you to sell me a supply, I read the small print on your website which was enough for me not to try.
Best regards
Gertjan
hi.
i think you will find that the gp11 has quite a low output, it seems like they settled for 300mv output and same input for their power amps, meaning they work fine together but not well with other power amps.....
i think our modules match (at least) the specs and sound quality of the lc audio modules.
about icepower and ucd they may have better specs , if that translates into better sound quality i dont know.
i have heard what several people say comparing our modules to the icepower ones, so far i have heard about no comparison to the ucd modules.
i agree that for pa systems and other proaudio uses other things than low thd plays a very important role, like protection circuits , ruggedness etc ,
let us know your experience with other preamps.
long time ago "a person" was banned here for advocating a direct ac driven amplifier because of the danger , working with switch mode supplies is very much the same thing....
best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
ps. if you have ideas for a high quality bass preamp you dont find "out there" feel free to send me a mail....
i think you will find that the gp11 has quite a low output, it seems like they settled for 300mv output and same input for their power amps, meaning they work fine together but not well with other power amps.....
i think our modules match (at least) the specs and sound quality of the lc audio modules.
about icepower and ucd they may have better specs , if that translates into better sound quality i dont know.
i have heard what several people say comparing our modules to the icepower ones, so far i have heard about no comparison to the ucd modules.
i agree that for pa systems and other proaudio uses other things than low thd plays a very important role, like protection circuits , ruggedness etc ,
let us know your experience with other preamps.
long time ago "a person" was banned here for advocating a direct ac driven amplifier because of the danger , working with switch mode supplies is very much the same thing....
best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
ps. if you have ideas for a high quality bass preamp you dont find "out there" feel free to send me a mail....
km said:
Hi Karsten,
Eventually, I am considering using a BassPod XT Pro (by Line6), only, I have no clue about its output voltage. It has a stereo output to which I could connect two modules for a "bi-amping" system. Maybe I could even modify the regular version (so, not the 19 " Pro-version). I think the additional features of the Pro do not justify the difference in price (> 350 Euro!), apart from the fact that its in a nice 19" housing...
Best regards, Joep
Re: I'm game........
A Question to Sheriff:
I want to buy some ICEpower modules, especialy the ICEpower 1000ASP, wich have the switching psu and amp on one print,and delivers 1000w@4R
Please can you let me know were i can buy thes ICEpower modules? I want to make a comparison in sound about the ICEpower, ZapPulse and the UCD-amps. Only i don't know were i can buy the ICEpower modules (and their switching Psu)
Regards
Sheriff said:
A Question to Sheriff:
I want to buy some ICEpower modules, especialy the ICEpower 1000ASP, wich have the switching psu and amp on one print,and delivers 1000w@4R
Please can you let me know were i can buy thes ICEpower modules? I want to make a comparison in sound about the ICEpower, ZapPulse and the UCD-amps. Only i don't know were i can buy the ICEpower modules (and their switching Psu)
Regards
Speakerpower Inc. manufactures complete turnkey self power amplifier modules for the professional loudspeaker market using ICEpower, DSP, transformer isolated input, etc. Please check out the web site www.speakerpower.net for details.
Brian Oppegaard said:
Brian,
From your web address i assume you have something to do with Speakerpower. I know ICE/Power only sell to OEMs in quantity (i was looking at ICE/power when they 1st showed off their product at the 107 AES)-- do you know of any other vendors selling into the DIY community? (i know they would be competition, but this part of the board is about information)
Also, how are the DSPs controlled? (note: the link that says it is a pdf is actually a Word file -- you need to fix that). Is the DSP software available on any other than Windows platform? How easy to port (i have a client that really wants to stay away from the high maintenance & incidental costs of the Windows platform)
dave
Hi dave,
I don't know of anyone catering to the DIY community with ICEpower. I sell OEM to loudspeaker manufacturers. However, I am talking to Parts Express about offering a speaker kit with the amp.
The software is only Windows. It is not user friendly. The philosophy is set and forget, not tweak in the field.
Thanks for the tip about the web link.
Brian
I don't know of anyone catering to the DIY community with ICEpower. I sell OEM to loudspeaker manufacturers. However, I am talking to Parts Express about offering a speaker kit with the amp.
The software is only Windows. It is not user friendly. The philosophy is set and forget, not tweak in the field.
Thanks for the tip about the web link.
Brian
Hi KM,
I see you've gone from "see my website" to recommending a google search that leads them straight to your website. That's funny, I admire that, but yeah, that's what they should be doing first anyway.
Your comment on the sound of your amps in comparison to LCaudio + UCD was especially shocking. It seemed very upfront and honest.
It seems you've gone to some effort to do things differently and I just wanted to say well done, it's worth some respect. Keep that up.
Best Regards,
Chris
I see you've gone from "see my website" to recommending a google search that leads them straight to your website. That's funny, I admire that, but yeah, that's what they should be doing first anyway.
Your comment on the sound of your amps in comparison to LCaudio + UCD was especially shocking. It seemed very upfront and honest.
It seems you've gone to some effort to do things differently and I just wanted to say well done, it's worth some respect. Keep that up.
Best Regards,
Chris
km said:hi.
>There's no way to (officially) get your hands on these except to buy a finsihed amplifier and take it apart.>
may i kindly suggest you search google for "icepower 250a"
best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
Note the use of the word "officially" in my post. If your website says "ICEpower Authorized Retailer" somewhere, my apologies for overlooking it
/U.
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