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Class D Switching Power Amplifiers and Power D/A conversion

How is Behringer NU6000 delivering 1500RMS into 8ohms with IRS2092s?
How is Behringer NU6000 delivering 1500RMS into 8ohms with IRS2092s?
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:32 AM   #11
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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Originally Posted by Eva View Post
Unfortunately that t.amp Proline 3000 is class H and is made up of 37kg of natural resources whose extraction and processing provokes about 20 times more disease and war than a cost optimized class D amplifier doing 750W/kg continuous and 2kW/kg for few seconds. (This is an affordable attainable ratio, requiring dedication, though.)
I didn't say it will be easy. (in doubt substitute with 'lightweight' )
What you are saying is ofcourse true but it's simply an example that there are amps that over perform and more than fulfil what they are advertised with. And since we are already 'here': These are heavy duty amps (in every meaning of that) but if you compare them with those lightweight, underperforming class D amps, at PA subs you'll notice they are on eye level or even above with a lot of amps rated twice the power. No, that's not a tell-tale-story, compare their output at 30 and 40Hz with class-D amps. How comes that? Well, firstly, their switching counterparts very often drop a lot in power in the lower regions. Combined with the exaggerated power specs and the much, MUCH shorter burst/impulse reproduction ability you end up slightly (but not surprisingly) below the Proline. If you care for the sound quality, it's even more drastically, the Proline are delivering so much more stable and souvereign bass performance.

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I have a Spanish word for that: "Mastodonte". For this case meaning something like: that the "project" got "fed" (ma)ternally yet (st)ubbornly, so gr(o)wth happened as a si(d)e effect, then it continued gr(o)wing , it got i(n)creasingly huge, turning agains(t) its cr(e)ators.
Heh. Well, over here we call them 'Eisenschweine' ('iron pigs'). Okay, if you are on the road, often the weight does matter. But you wouldn't go on the road that with an iNuke, the flimsy case and plastic front will deteriorate rather quickly with such use and I don't want to start on relyability. You end up with much more expensive ones than the iNukes which can take that. If you use the amps at a venue, cinema or at home, the weight can be ignored altogether and if you compare price/performance instead of weight/performance, you'll have a very, very hard time to beat that performance with an equally priced class-D amplifier, even if that huge material battle should cost a lot more in theory.

I'm not saying A/B / H amps are better, I just want to tell these (still) have their justification, depending on what you're doing.
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Old 29th October 2017, 02:56 PM   #12
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I'm not saying A/B / H amps are better, I just want to tell these (still) have their justification, depending on what you're doing.
In terms of power I doubt that. (Discussions about sound details are not in the focus of this post.)
Back to power: If the power can be delivered longer or shorter and for bass or mid only is not a question of class A/B/H or D. You can design any of these amp types for short term power or for reproduction of a continuous sine wave as well.
Edit: ...well, classA needs already full power design for idle operation. So classA cannot really be designed for short term power.
When designed to the same power spec the class D amp will be smaller, lighter, less resource hungry, less energy hungry and - if you exclude R&D cost - less costly.
It's just a question of the specific implementation, which is a consequence of the specification. The struggle is about the specification.
Inapropriate power specs, which do not fit to the intended use case, have tradition since the world of audio amplifiers is advertising power.

Last edited by ChocoHolic; 29th October 2017 at 03:20 PM. Reason: See edit...
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Old 6th November 2017, 05:04 AM   #13
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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In terms of power I doubt that. (Discussions about sound details are not in the focus of this post.)
I was not only talking about the sound, also on relyability and they are very easily serviceable over a very long period of time. You cannot say the same about class D and SMPSs and if any of the defective ICs are out of production in most cases the amp is ready for the bin.

But I have to repeat myself, I just mentioned the Powerline amp because they over-deliver the specs by a remarkable margin. It just happened to be a class H amp. When was the last time you saw a reasonable priced class D amp which exceeded the specs in realistic, actually usable situations?

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Originally Posted by ChocoHolic View Post
Back to power: If the power can be delivered longer or shorter and for bass or mid only is not a question of class A/B/H or D. You can design any of these amp types for short term power or for reproduction of a continuous sine wave as well.
Yes, you could. But looking at the market, noone does it (RMS) at class D amps, at least not up to much, much higher price levels.

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Originally Posted by ChocoHolic View Post
Edit: ...well, classA needs already full power design for idle operation. So classA cannot really be designed for short term power.
Well, noone uses Class A in these ranges of output power, there are none you could buy. If you need high power, the requirements in power supply and heat/cooling are simply too high.

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Originally Posted by ChocoHolic View Post
When designed to the same power spec the class D amp will be smaller, lighter, less resource hungry, less energy hungry and - if you exclude R&D cost - less costly.
Yes, that's right and I know that. I nowhere claimed anything else.

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Originally Posted by ChocoHolic View Post
It's just a question of the specific implementation, which is a consequence of the specification. The struggle is about the specification.
Inapropriate power specs, which do not fit to the intended use case, have tradition since the world of audio amplifiers is advertising power.
Well, that's not always the case. I just pointed out there actually ARE amplifiers which exceed the specs easily and I also said that's not a matter of a high price level. The Proline example sells well so there's no need to actually lie.
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Old 8th November 2017, 10:59 AM   #14
rhythmsandy is offline rhythmsandy
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I believe its the same case with Devialet Phantom I really doubt its 4500Watt spec even if its peak.
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Old 8th November 2017, 07:40 PM   #15
ICG is offline ICG  Germany
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I believe its the same case with Devialet Phantom I really doubt its 4500Watt spec even if its peak.
Just a little reminder, a 220/230V power plug (which it does use) just delivers 16A max, that means 230V x 16A = 3680W. That means, it can only be peak power.
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