The Counterpoints were notorious for their unreliability. And charging premium to fix things didn't help their cause either. I don't dig as deep as most here, but it's prob a bad batch of components. I replaced the board & got new tubes the last year Counterpoint was in Vista Ca, sometime mid 90's. It's been fine ever since. I did notice the designer walked with a cane. Perhaps he was physically unable to work on his amps hence the issues.
Back to main topic. I agree sound per pound tripath & class D does it for me too. BTW, I've had the Lepai LP-2020TI for 2 days now. I actually like it, I'd say the sound in b/w the tripath & the tda7498, a lot better airy mids. But it stops just short of the richness. After owning the tripath, 3 different chipped class D amps & a modern tube/transistor hybrid (which imo is far better than the class D's), I don't think we're going to get that tripath sound unless manufacturers specifically wear their rose color glasses. You know when you don't fully insert a headphone jack & hear a superwide stereo image? That sounds like crap but Tripath implemented something sublime.
Thanks Ported that the Q5 also has that special something sound. I'm trying to simplify things and here I am adding amps. So does it come close to Tripath? I guess it'll be next after I sell/gift some amps. That & prob a tube pre & ta2020 amp.
So what is everybody's main class T/D setup here?
Back to main topic. I agree sound per pound tripath & class D does it for me too. BTW, I've had the Lepai LP-2020TI for 2 days now. I actually like it, I'd say the sound in b/w the tripath & the tda7498, a lot better airy mids. But it stops just short of the richness. After owning the tripath, 3 different chipped class D amps & a modern tube/transistor hybrid (which imo is far better than the class D's), I don't think we're going to get that tripath sound unless manufacturers specifically wear their rose color glasses. You know when you don't fully insert a headphone jack & hear a superwide stereo image? That sounds like crap but Tripath implemented something sublime.
Thanks Ported that the Q5 also has that special something sound. I'm trying to simplify things and here I am adding amps. So does it come close to Tripath? I guess it'll be next after I sell/gift some amps. That & prob a tube pre & ta2020 amp.
So what is everybody's main class T/D setup here?
Hmm...not sure why you're trying to compare a "supposedly" high-end Counterpoint hybrid preamp to the cheap a$$ Class D Chinese amps.
A bad batch of components is possible, but unlikely.
"Poor-engineering" or "over-engineering"(making things waaay more complicated than they need to be) is more likely the culprit for their poor reliability.
Counterpoint was just another American company trying to compete in the high-end audio industry in the 80's and 90's.
Unfortunately, like a lot of companies back then they went belly-up.
Michael Elliott was the "real" brains behind most of their designs and started Alta Vista Audio in the late 90's to repair/modify Counterpoint equipment.
Personally, I've never owned a Counterpoint product because of the ridiculous prices eBay sellers and other morons out there are trying to get for this unreliable crap. Even if I was rich, there's always the problem that there's not any support for their products anymore.
What exactly is a "main class T/D setup"??
I have lots
....seriously though my ' main ' system in the lounge is a Onkyo ( cd ) / Cambridge Audio / Monitor Audio set - up that gives good performance , a balanced and neutral sound that works well with my extremely diverse musical tastes.I've done the normal route of constant upgrades , snake oil products and thousands spent both in money and hours listening to equipment not music.
This system i leave well alone ( although i have a spare room piled up with various ' boxes ' should i get the urge to change .
This still leaves me with the urge to tinker and experiment though which is how Tripath/ Class D entered my life starting with the Lepai / Lepy 2024 A + bought on a whim and with zero knowledge at the time of this type of amp.
Like many people i was stunned by the sound it made and thats where my ' experimental ' urges are now satisfied.
Since then i've had a various models from SMSL , Topping etc yet that little Lapai keeps sneaking it's way back in
As for my ' main ' class D system for the last 10 months i've been enjoying a set-up of
Philips 473 cd ( approaching it's 30 th birthday and still going strong ) which uses the 'magical' TDA 1541 dac GBP 12 mint condition from a junk shop - a Fatman S - State 60 amp which is Class D , possibly a Tripath 2020 or 2021 chip , it's still under warranty so i haven't cracked it open yet GBP 128 in a sale ( Amazon ) and a pair of Scythe Krocraft Rev B speakers , small simplified transmission lines , no X over just a resistor on the tweeter .
Designed as computer desktops but capable of so much more GBP 70 ( Amazon ).
This is a system that most ' audiophiles ' would sneer at but as i said before ' sound per pound ' it takes some beating, those Scythes are another product like the Lapai that shouldn't perform like they do but left me slack jawed the first time i heard them .
So for me i've kinda come full circle , after spending untold amounts on so called high end audiophile equipment and products i now get my kicks from seeing just how cheaply i can build a musically satisfying system.
I agree it's not particularly well spec'd 22 w per channel into 4 ohm @ 10% thd and 80 db snr , not sure what airvents / height means but it's got onboard psu not a separate brick so i guess it needs some air .
I freely admit i bought partly for the styling it was half normal price and although primarily designed for ' hipsters ' to use with i pods etc , regardless of specs it's a fun little amp.
It's easy to say why not this or this etc. and look solely at measurements but like most things in life measurements are only part of any equation and no doubt my next ' fun toy ' will be something spec'd better ...... or maybe worse .
For ME , with no desire or inclination to argue the point endlessly , buying or building a system of components based on nothing but measurements may result in a scientificly 'perfect' stack of equipment but doesn't take into account personal taste or the various 'distortions' created by some less than perfect gear actually sounding ' better ' to some ears .
As far as i'm concerned no ones wrong or right , if it gives you pleasure it's doing it's job regardless of anything else .
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I assumed the vents were partly styling , partly venting for the power supply , i assume when you looked you noted how small the amp is ? the size is what initially made me think class d along with the sales blurb about the tech approaching the valve sound , a claim often made about Tripath.
As for buying blind i did spend weeks searching for information before buying as there were no reviews or specs anywhere beyond watts per channel even on Fatmans website.
Emails to them , the distributor and Tony Larkin himself all went unanswered , hardly good business practice buts thats the results i got .
Digging deeper it looked like Fatman and TL audio were bankrupt and the website address was just a distributor with no interest in answering individual customer questions.
I even found some old contacts for Fatman service engineers but they all bounced back so eventually i gave up took a chance and and hit ' buy now '.
A few weeks later i was chatting to a friend who's an ex RS manager and he confirmed that the amp is class D and used to sell them but couldn't remember the chip used.
They used to sell for GBP250 which is ridiculous for what it is and even half price is pushing it but whilst i'm aware theres better for the same or less money i don't regret buying it , used with the component's it's matched with it makes an enjoyable sound , next up a 2020 TI when i can source one
Only personal experience with Fatman was vacuum tubes, too expensive, unreliable, 5 sets within a month at a european Saturn group outlet, none were sold, all broke down, on display. This doesn't mean they, the vacuum tube Fatmans could not last years owned privately, just means when on display at huge electronicstores they don't last a week. I didn't know of Fatman SS amps, I left Saturn group very quickly. I liked the Fatman tubes in Apple airport stores previous to my experience in Saturn group stores, I liked the marketing idea, not especially the product.
Fatman were quick to jump on the bandwagon with a widespread resurgence of interest in valve tech fueled mainly by the marketing of vinyl to a new generation of i pod users and hipsters , ' trendy ' retro styled hybrid amps were everywhere a few years ago sold with i pod docks and Crossley turntables .
Most were built cheap and sold for vastly over - inflated prices like most new ' in ' products the adverts insist you need for your lifestyle.
I was never under any illusions that i was buying a quality piece of equipment, l just wanted to be more attractive to girls
... seriously though i thought for the price i got it for it was worth a look , i will NEVER admit i bought a lemon just because it looked cute That's my understanding too but hesitated to say. Someone should make a "friends don't let friends overengineer" sticker & hand it out to people designing 5th generation jet fighters, WWII era king tanks, and many sports cars.
Seriously, what's a class D/class T amp?
I have lots
Me too
Thanks for talking about your equipment setups. I like to tinker too & this gives me lots of places to research. That Fatman SS seems like something I would've liked. I think your hunch is right, those specs look class D. It has better build (air vents hopefully help?) & better tone controls. Honestly having been thru these amps I don't mind the Lepai's cheap build now. I never heard of simple transmission lines & the resistor for tweeter in lieu of crossover either. Got more learning ahead.Besides my Veritas 1.8 towers, I'm using clearance Insignia speakers for a computer. < $80? Check. Woven graphite woofers? check. A tweeter where dust cap is for phase alignment? check.
Irribeo going thru that many tubes in 5 months doesnt seem right. I have guitars tube amps that are overdriven-overdriven for distortion and they don't fail at all. that's pretty poor design especially if they charged premium.
I'd say skip the 2020TI unless you really need more volume. It has better bass & sounds similar to the A+. You can almost hear the richness but it doesn't arrive. I'd rather pay more for a used A+ which are going for $40 used (almost double, gasp!) on FeeBay. LOL, the Lepai rare commodity. Funny story I exchanged the TI for an A+ with my brother.
btw, no need to answer if the Q5 pro sounds good cos I forgot the Lepai & tubepre system hasn't been reconnected. FeeBay has 'em for $65.99 to US (with 2 more at this price) so I just had to get one. It has 7 modes & I'm hoping one will sound close to the tripath. The breeze & possibly my tda7498 are going to friends. This is slow boat but I will report back.
I don't know, I seem to read English differently and write differently too.
All Fatman's lasted a couple of days (not 5 months). 5 broke down within same month (total stock was 5 units). They couldn't directly be replaced after that, none were sold during that month. Units on display can be used by visitors, switched on/off, listened to.
All Fatman's lasted a couple of days (not 5 months). 5 broke down within same month (total stock was 5 units). They couldn't directly be replaced after that, none were sold during that month. Units on display can be used by visitors, switched on/off, listened to.
The main failing of the Fatman is the use of rotary encoders for the volume and tone controls, i've had a few issues where the volume was increasing or decreasing inconsistently.Me too
Besides my Veritas 1.8 towers, I'm using clearance Insignia speakers for a computer. < $80? Check. Woven graphite woofers? check. A tweeter where dust cap is for phase alignment? check.
I posted a few questions about it on the forum and it's a common issue for this type of encoder and i have to make sure i turn the volume at a steady speed to prevent it.
To be honest had i known it used this type of control in advance i would never have bought it but once i'd got it the actual sound it produced prevented me sending it back and to be fair the seller offered a replacement unit if needed .
They're still on Amazon uk so might be worth a look on Amazon com if you fancy one.
Worldwide voltage compatible too , switchable on the back .
Those speakers of yours are co-ax , like car speakers , the idea being to get the sound originating from a single point source .
The theorys good but it's a very difficult design to implement for critical hi-fi use as by nature it introduces it's own issues such as the sounds from the drivers reaching your ears at different times.
Theres a company over there , CEentrance that sell a small model called the Masterclass 2504 that i 'd love to try with an Amptastic Mini 1 but impossible to source a pair here .
Transmission Line or TL designs use a series of channels or slots inside the cabinet which guides and tunes the airflow allowing the speaker to produce more bass than a normal box of the same size .
The lack of a X over in multi driver speakers generally means the type of design you get with mass market all in one type hi fi systems , the signal goes direct to the woofer then the other drivers are linked in series with resistors providing the cut off frequencys .
The Scythes i have use a full range driver fed directly from the terminals then the tweeter is linked as above .
There is then the issue of overlap , both drivers producing the same frequencies at certain points as the ' woofer ' being ' full range ' produces treble and not just bass .
Theres no markings on the resistor in the Scythes but from it seems to be set quite high up the range almost all the sound comes from the main driver , the HF unit only chiming in occasionally.
On paper this sounds terrible but like the Lapai amps it's one of those rare products that exceeds expectations and performs well above it's pay grade .
Finally if you enjoy the Tripath sound, one linked to a decent set of single driver full range 6 ohm speakers is the ideal match according to many enthusiasts ...i' m working on it
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oh gosh, I got 4 sets of speakers in the house I prob shouldn't add anymore But thanks for the tip. It's been fun matching amps to speakers. I didn't know about 6ohm speakers, just the 4 ohm car, 8 ohm home, and my 16 ohm Celestion Vintage 30's for guitar (parallel wired for an 8 ohm load) . My QLN model One's from high school days sound very neutral so I have the DEAFidelity AV380 on that. I can't say enough good things about that amp. I think the Nobsound MS-10 mk(x) is similar but bizarrely incorporates power tubes even tho it's transistor output. The AV380 uses tube rectification, preamp tubes, and transistor output, quite bizarre too and I think the rectifiers are more for show. Sorry I sound like they're paying me but I guarantee I have nothing to do with them.
I've had the Lepais (or is Lepai already plural like Elvii?) on various speakers and can confirm what I've read: ironically the cheap Lepai matches best with expensive & sensitive tower speakers. In this case, my 1.8s have good bass & treble response. My thinking process was trying to get a better TA2020 chipped amp just to visually match it. It makes sense to eventually get something nicer like a tube pre & an amptastic or for easier logistics a SMSL Amp-03 or Muse Ex2...something with better "guts", although I can't hear the dirt cheap components in the Lepai :0. I guess I need to read up on audiophile grade capacitors, resistors (they resist current at higher quality lol?), inductors, etc. In the end I'm not inclined or interested in all the technical aspects. There's some seriously smart people on this site building & modifying amps.
Irribeo, your English is clear I just jumbled the info my head. I forgot all my high school French so could only bet Cent (100 euros) at the Aviation Club
Copy that on co-axial. Had brain cramp & forgot terminology. In live music we use a BBE sound processor that I think delays the treble frequencies for phase alignment with the bass. It makes sound much more intelligible. At low volume the effect is unnatural so you're right, I supposed it's harder to implement correctly.
Copy that on TL, I'm very familiar with the concept, just didn't know the term as well.
Oh a tid bit about Mike Elliot of Counterpoint. When he saw me with the busted amp, instead of apologizing or inquiring about it, he said a random quip and went away. I guess he was defensive about his pride & joy but suffice he's not the most genial guy.
But thanks for the tip. It's been fun matching amps to speakers. I didn't know about 6ohm speakers, just the 4 ohm car, 8 ohm home, and my 16 ohm Celestion Vintage 30's for guitar (parallel wired for an 8 ohm load) . My QLN model One's from high school days sound very neutral so I have the DEAFidelity AV380 on that. I can't say enough good things about that amp. I think the Nobsound MS-10 mk(x) is similar but bizarrely incorporates power tubes even tho it's transistor output. The AV380 uses tube rectification, preamp tubes, and transistor output, quite bizarre too and I think the rectifiers are more for show. Sorry I sound like they're paying me but I guarantee I have nothing to do with them. I've had the Lepais (or is Lepai already plural
like Elvii?) on various speakers and can confirm what I've read: ironically the cheap Lepai matches best with expensive & sensitive tower speakers. In this case, my 1.8s have good bass & treble response. My thinking process was trying to get a better TA2020 chipped amp just to visually match it. It makes sense to eventually get something nicer like a tube pre & an amptastic or for easier logistics a SMSL Amp-03 or Muse Ex2...something with better "guts", although I can't hear the dirt cheap components in the Lepai :0. I guess I need to read up on audiophile grade capacitors, resistors (they resist current at higher quality lol?), inductors, etc. In the end I'm not inclined or interested in all the technical aspects. There's some seriously smart people on this site building & modifying amps.Irribeo, your English is clear I just jumbled the info my head. I forgot all my high school French so could only bet Cent (100 euros) at the Aviation Club
Copy that on co-axial. Had brain cramp & forgot terminology. In live music we use a BBE sound processor that I think delays the treble frequencies for phase alignment with the bass. It makes sound much more intelligible. At low volume the effect is unnatural so you're right, I supposed it's harder to implement correctly.
Copy that on TL, I'm very familiar with the concept, just didn't know the term as well.
Oh a tid bit about Mike Elliot of Counterpoint. When he saw me with the busted amp, instead of apologizing or inquiring about it, he said a random quip and went away. I guess he was defensive about his pride & joy but suffice he's not the most genial guy.
Don't get a Nobsound it's a generic hybrid amp mass produced in some obscure Chinese factory sold by the container load to various companies who then stick their own ' brand ' name on it , Koda, Madisound, Nobsound and Intimidation are just a few there are many more.
It's badly built , the valves are little more than light bulbs , the transformer housing is empty ( it's got a small psu inside ) and is just a basic transistor design that cashs in on the trend for retro / nostalgic gear favoured by hipsters and ' enthusiasts ' of the sort that think that speaker ratings equal power output.
Theres loads of videos on You Tube including stripdowns and many tube ' rolling ' ones where people are replacing the stock valves with ones that cost more than the amp and raving about the increased transparency etc. , if only they took a look inside, avoid .
With regard to 6 ohm / Tripath , in general with many Tripath amps as the speaker impedence rises so does the high frequency output resulting in either to much (8 ohm) or not enough (4 ohm) , a nominal 6 ohm load is often considered to give the best balance .
It's badly built , the valves are little more than light bulbs , the transformer housing is empty ( it's got a small psu inside ) and is just a basic transistor design that cashs in on the trend for retro / nostalgic gear favoured by hipsters and ' enthusiasts ' of the sort that think that speaker ratings equal power output.
Theres loads of videos on You Tube including stripdowns and many tube ' rolling ' ones where people are replacing the stock valves with ones that cost more than the amp and raving about the increased transparency etc. , if only they took a look inside, avoid .
With regard to 6 ohm / Tripath , in general with many Tripath amps as the speaker impedence rises so does the high frequency output resulting in either to much (8 ohm) or not enough (4 ohm) , a nominal 6 ohm load is often considered to give the best balance .
got the SMSL Q5-Pro
Hi everyone, just wanted to update those still interested in this thread. I got the SMSL-Q5 Pro 4 days ago, and my impression is 1) It's got the "spacious" sound - although it doesnt sound as immersive as the Lepai. It sounds like a 1 or 2mm second delay b/w left & right channels vs a"3D ambience" (yes that's a technical term) of the Lepai. 2) the bass is way stronger 3) As another poster said, it is very revealing. Jazz, blues or acoustic will sound fantastic & open. But anything modern like dance, especially if mastered w exaggerated treble and treble for dogs is not pleasant. For the computer, I've downloaded a VST wrapper & a free tube/tape simulator plug in for winamp which can help in these instances. For my Sony CD player, the optical connection sounds less sibilant than the analog. I can imagine this type of sound being perfect in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.
Hi everyone, just wanted to update those still interested in this thread. I got the SMSL-Q5 Pro 4 days ago, and my impression is 1) It's got the "spacious" sound - although it doesnt sound as immersive as the Lepai. It sounds like a 1 or 2mm second delay b/w left & right channels vs a"3D ambience" (yes that's a technical term
) of the Lepai. 2) the bass is way stronger 3) As another poster said, it is very revealing. Jazz, blues or acoustic will sound fantastic & open. But anything modern like dance, especially if mastered w exaggerated treble and treble for dogs is not pleasant. For the computer, I've downloaded a VST wrapper & a free tube/tape simulator plug in for winamp which can help in these instances. For my Sony CD player, the optical connection sounds less sibilant than the analog. I can imagine this type of sound being perfect in a 5.1 or 7.1 setup.
It's a keeper! Got it hooked up to a Sony 300 disc cd player & tv. Just rewatched Titanic last night & never knew it sounded so good! Super spacious & dynamic sound. Super clear dialog. Has a nice remote & was able to fiddle volume, bass & treble on the fly, can't do that w the Lepai. I highly recommended this sir.
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