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Old 26th January 2004, 11:02 PM   #11
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Old 27th January 2004, 06:23 AM   #12
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i understand that us patent office doesnt perform a patent search to see if a new patent is valid (mr. pass please correct me here if im wrong) and this could be the main reason for this.
This is also the case in Switzerland. But I think they just follow international recommendations.

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Charles
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Old 27th January 2004, 06:25 AM   #13
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Hi to all,

Yes indeed we have got a licence from Philips to use their Class-D technology so called UcD. Currently we are uprading some of our Subwoofer Amplifiers with this design. The specs of this UcD is really very good, measuring with the AP Sys2 THD is between 0,01 - 0,05% and an output impedance of 0,002 - 0,005 Ohm.

Besides this specs, the sound of this amp is really a step forward. We have made a test setup with a very good Analog Amplifier and the UcD. Everybody can very easy hear that the sound of the UcD is much better. The big difference is the improvement in the definition of the sound.

At the moment we are designin two powerboards +/-180W and +/-360W. Within several months we will introduce this on our website www.hypex.nl.

Regards,

Jan-PEter
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Old 27th January 2004, 08:36 AM   #14
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BTW: One of the oldest patents that describe a class-d amp with feedback takeoff after the main output filter is the foolowing:

http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/bn...++1560195A++I+

According to my knowledge it should have run out (application was more than 25 years back).

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Charles
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Old 27th January 2004, 09:27 AM   #15
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Originally posted by km
[snip]i understand that us patent office doesnt perform a patent search to see if a new patent is valid (mr. pass please correct me here if im wrong) and this could be the main reason for this.

the rest is up to the lawyers i guess

best rgds - karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
On patents: I don't know about the US, but in Europa there was a sweeping reform of the patent laws about 5 or 6 years ago. Before that, the patent office did a search and when they thought you were OK you got the patent. Problem with that was also that the patent office got sued when the patent was not upheld in court. Now it is up to the patentee (is that the right word, it's the person requesting the patent). The patent office will still do a national or international search if you want it and pay for it, but whatever the outcome, if you still want to file, you can.
That means you can even have a patent that has been shown by the patent office to be invalid. But, as long as nobody challenges it, hey, what the heck!

Jan Didden
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Old 27th January 2004, 09:42 AM   #16
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hi.

i think some of the above goes to show what can be acomplished with feedback

i think the past has shown us (at least some of us) that good specs isnt always the same as good sound quality, i have no reason to think the philips ucd doesnt sound good but it would be interesting to see an unbiased comparison....

in my mind patents can be used to establish a stronger basis for discussions with other parties and i know of at least one example where it was used to try to keep others out of the market (im talking about class-d patents here)

jan-petter , i doubt you will find many uses for an amp giving - 180W but if your new amps are more stable than the old ones this will spell a vast improvement , right?

rgds karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
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Old 27th January 2004, 10:06 AM   #17
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Karsten,

I don't understand your text:

i doubt you will find many uses for an amp giving - 180W but if your new amps are more stable than the old ones this will spell a vast improvement , right?

What is the problem with the power? And what is the problem with stability?

I will show on our website some AP graphs from different proto UcD, I can't post images more as 10K ;-(

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Jan-Peter
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Old 27th January 2004, 10:39 AM   #18
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For an independant discussion of the Philips UcD and other digital amps, see:

classd.org

From his listening experience, the UcD was the best class d design he has heard (and it sounds like he has heard many), and it beat out in comparison listening several mega dollar traditional amps.
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Old 27th January 2004, 10:41 AM   #19
km is offline km
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hi.

sorry its not easy when you write , i meant you wont find many uses for minus 180W (tried to say it with a smiley...)

did you mean 2x180W and 2x360W?

i would much prefer to hear one of the ucd amps , i have seen and heard other pwm amps with very good published specs and this only confirmed my idea about no tight relation between good specs and good sound quality.

in my mind the trend in pro audio still goes towards higher power and as im sure you know this isnt too easy to get with traditional amplifier topology and certainly not easy with wigh reliability

rgds karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
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Old 27th January 2004, 10:53 AM   #20
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hi.

tip / class-d org dont qualify as independant / unbiased in my mind

as an example he wanted to have full documentation to even mention our amps on his site , what would he need that for?

i would welcome a unbiased comparison of different class-d amplifiers but i havent come across one yet......

rgds karsten madsen - cadaudio.dk
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