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Old 10th December 2014, 08:31 AM   #1
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Default cheap IRS2092 or expensive (Anaview AMS1000 / Hypex NC400)

This is my first post. Greetings to the forum

Im planing to buy one of the best nearfiled monitor of the market: Amphion One15.

My first option is to buy the matched amp Amphion N100. It's based on Anaview AMS1000 and there are some opinions that affirm to beat NC400.
But this amp is 1000 and i will be out of money after buying the loudspeakers.

So i need to choose to wait time to save more money and go best option (AMS1000 or NC400) or find a cheaper way to have a power amp now.

If i choose to don't wait, I have a 200 to buy/build a cheap class D amplifier and the first option that get my attention is the IRS2092.
In specification even it could be compared with the high end amps:
THD :0,1%
Frequency Response: +/- 1dB

After reading a lot i could understand that the high end class D amps can be load independent because their final stage doesn't negative interact too much with the loadspeaker.. but ..
- How much important is the load independence in terms of audio quality? This justify the price gap?
- In terms of specifications (THD and Frequency response) the IRS2092 can beat the more expensive NC400 or AMS1000.. so what is the trick? They have more qualities that aren't not measurable?

And the final question is, what will you do? wait to save more money or buy now a cheap IRS2092 solution like this: Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay

Thank you guys!!
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Old 10th December 2014, 09:11 AM   #2
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edding View Post
- How much important is the load independence in terms of audio quality?
Depends on the load impedance

If it varies a lot with frequency, it will have an effect.

Quote:
This justify the price gap?
That is something only you can decide.

Quote:
In terms of specifications (THD and Frequency response) the IRS2092 can beat the more expensive NC400 or AMS1000.. so what is the trick? They have more qualities that aren't not measurable?
The nc400 has a max THD *and IMD* of 0.002% over the whole 20-20k frequency range, and a frequency response of +0/-0.5 dB over the same range. I don't think the IRS2092 is in the same league. But where the nc400 really shines is dealing with difficult loads.

Quote:
And the final question is, what will you do? wait to save more money or buy now a cheap IRS2092 solution like this: Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay
I would try to get to try the IRS2092-based amp with your speakers. It is probably more than good enough, but again, the only one that can say if it sounds good to you or not (and how much money that is worth to you) is you yourself.
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Old 10th December 2014, 09:29 AM   #3
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Try to read this thread I do not have first experience with Markus design aka Chocoholic but the measurement is very good and one member has the first proto (ASTX) may be you can ask him how the amp sound.
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Old 10th December 2014, 11:53 AM   #4
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Thanks a lot for the answer Julf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julf View Post
Depends on the load impedance
If it varies a lot with frequency, it will have an effect.
That is something only you can decide.
Please correct me if i understood well. I guess the load dependance finally translates to frequency response and THD over frequency. If we focus first in the frequency response and we looking at the next specification:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf
It says that frequency variation is +0dB/-3dB: That means 3dB of variation over all the spectrum.
In the other hand if the specification of the product of the next link is right. The variation of the frequency response is 1dB. (IR doesnt give you this variation in their datasheets )
Finished IRAUD350 Class D Power amplifier IRS2092 IRFB4227 300W+300W CL-143 | eBay

Im going to asume that 0.1% is a very good average of THD event not hearing perceptible in audiophile , then, both solutiones can achieve this performance.
But then, i am even more confused
I understand that both solutions are in different leagues according to price and what people says.. But i want to understand how this differences translates to measurables numbers. Just for the 0.002% vs 0.1% in THD?

But this question make me think other question: AMS1000 says 0.1%THD in their datasheets and there are people in A/B listening saying that AMS1000 sounds better than NC400. This make me think how important is THD below a threshold (say for example this 0.1%)

So, if i want a the more neutral and the more high fidelity amp, and i only have this two numbers: (Frequency ripple and THD), and this numbers are:
3dB vs 1dB [F. Response]
0.002% vs 0.1% [THD]

How i can achieve that one solution is much more butter than other, and justify to be x7 priced?
There are other measurable data i'm losing?
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Old 10th December 2014, 11:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembulan View Post
Try to read this thread I do not have first experience with Markus design aka Chocoholic but the measurement is very good and one member has the first proto (ASTX) may be you can ask him how the amp sound.
SystemD LiteAmp
Thank you very much, it seems very interesting.
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Old 10th December 2014, 12:10 PM   #6
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IMO, if you want to use Class-D then you should buy the best you can afford. It is hard to get low distortion from a Class-D amp at all power levels, it takes quality components, serious design skill and good quality control in manufacturing. For cheap Class-D amps they usually print the lowest distortion figure they can find anywhere within the amp's frequency and power range.

If you want a budget amp now, I would recommend you get a LM3886 chipamp type of solution and just put up with the reduced power output.
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Last edited by scopeboy; 10th December 2014 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 10th December 2014, 12:21 PM   #7
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check out the crown xls series. A lot of buzz about them outperforming amps at big multiples of their cost. There are several in the series, and they sell for around $400....

Ncore is still the standard in class d. Anaview and Pascal offer quality products. Personal preference and system synergy will play the deciding factors in which is "best" for you.
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Old 10th December 2014, 01:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rembulan View Post
Try to read this thread I do not have first experience with Markus design aka Chocoholic but the measurement is very good and one member has the first proto (ASTX) may be you can ask him how the amp sound.
SystemD LiteAmp
I've read the whole thread, but this focused to 2x50w amp.
I need more headroom: 2x100w.
Thank you anyway
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Old 10th December 2014, 02:51 PM   #9
Julf is offline Julf  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edding View Post
If we focus first in the frequency response and we looking at the next specification:
http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf
It says that frequency variation is +0dB/-3dB: That means 3dB of variation over all the spectrum.
Yes, -3 dB at 50 kHz. If you look at the actual graph, you see that 20 kHz is at -0.5 dB (and the whole frequency deviation is a benign, smooth HF decay).

That variation does *not* include frequency response deviations caused by load impedance variations - they are into a constant load.

Quote:
Im going to asume that 0.1% is a very good average of THD event not hearing perceptible in audiophile , then, both solutiones can achieve this performance.
Yes, if that 0.1% is over the whole frequency range, and not just 1 kHz. Hypex specifies 0.002% over the whole 20-20k range. The IRAUD350 seems to only specify the THD at 1kHz.

Quote:
But this question make me think other question: AMS1000 says 0.1%THD in their datasheets and there are people in A/B listening saying that AMS1000 sounds better than NC400. This make me think how important is THD below a threshold (say for example this 0.1%)
Again, let's make sure we talk about 0.1% over the whole audible frequency range.

Quote:
So, if i want a the more neutral and the more high fidelity amp, and i only have this two numbers: (Frequency ripple and THD), and this numbers are:
3dB vs 1dB [F. Response] 0.002% vs 0.1% [THD]

How i can achieve that one solution is much more butter than other, and justify to be x7 priced?
You can't justify it based on just those numbers. The only real justification is which one sounds better to *you* (we all have different preferences), and how much that difference (if any) is worth to you.

Quote:
There are other measurable data i'm losing?
Yes, primarily IM and THD over the whole frequency range. In class D, SID is sometimes a concern.
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Old 10th December 2014, 08:10 PM   #10
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FWIW - I wouldn't get too carried away with numbers. I bought Anaview ALC0300-1300. Soon after they announced AMS series. I thought, should I be disappointed that I missed out? NO!. I am delighted with the amplifiers I have. Build is heavy, quality. Bass sounds great - I can distinguish the notes on a bass guitar & tell it from an upright bass. I can hear the attack of a drum beat. For the first time I realised Neneh Cherry was singing "Golden Ring" and not "Golden Rain". I suspect my listening room will have a bigger effect on frequency response than the amplifier. Noise? No low noise amplifier will stop the rain pattering on the window or next doors TV being too loud. I guess I'll never know if AMS or Hypex would sound better to me but I no longer worry about it.
I'm not saying you shouldn't choose an Ncore, just consider that the rest of your system would have to be in the same league and remember the most important part - the music you listen to (you can buy an awful lot of CDs for the price of a couple of amps).
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