There has been a lot of OT discussions in the main 3116 thread and I wanted to give this topic it's own thread. Very interesting discussions so far from here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-414.html#post4008905
Let's restart the discussion here.
Thanks,
X
Here was the last significant post from previous thread to get things going.
Originally Posted by Downunder55 You are so right about the Raspberry Pi ! Interesting, .....I am in the process of building an all-in-one music server based on an Audiobah, Rasp PI, HiFiBerry Dac etc. There will be no other inputs other than directly from the HiFiBerry DAC PCB to the amp via an Alps Pot. http://i0.wp.com/www.hifiberry.com/w...size=251%2C167 Based on your comment would I need to ground this connection ? .. maybe from the pot ? Hi, well, I can share my experience as I have a Rapsberry, a hifiberry and a TP3116. In fact, I have two configurations: 1) for home, another minipc with a 9023 DAC + TPA 3116 2) for wy wife, Yoga teacher, raspberrypi + hifiberry + TPA3116 in a box with a battery (not finished yet) Be carrefull with Hifiberry, it is loud, and there is no hardware volume control. What I can say, is for a cheap equipment, it sounds good, except it is full of electric noise. The raspberry architecture is not good for that. A new raspberry pi is coming, well, some people say this issue is solved. So wait and see.....
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/237086-tpa3116d2-amp-414.html#post4008905
Let's restart the discussion here.
Thanks,
X
Here was the last significant post from previous thread to get things going.
Originally Posted by Downunder55 You are so right about the Raspberry Pi ! Interesting, .....I am in the process of building an all-in-one music server based on an Audiobah, Rasp PI, HiFiBerry Dac etc. There will be no other inputs other than directly from the HiFiBerry DAC PCB to the amp via an Alps Pot. http://i0.wp.com/www.hifiberry.com/w...size=251%2C167 Based on your comment would I need to ground this connection ? .. maybe from the pot ? Hi, well, I can share my experience as I have a Rapsberry, a hifiberry and a TP3116. In fact, I have two configurations: 1) for home, another minipc with a 9023 DAC + TPA 3116 2) for wy wife, Yoga teacher, raspberrypi + hifiberry + TPA3116 in a box with a battery (not finished yet) Be carrefull with Hifiberry, it is loud, and there is no hardware volume control. What I can say, is for a cheap equipment, it sounds good, except it is full of electric noise. The raspberry architecture is not good for that. A new raspberry pi is coming, well, some people say this issue is solved. So wait and see.....
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Quote camelator:
"One on the USB port, and it is correct to say by using I2S there is less noise.
Another problem on the power filter. For this one, Same noise issue with I2S and USB. Improvements done on new Raspberry."
I have used Rpi with both USB and I2s and got no noise unless there was a SW issue.
Agree USB is poorly implemented on the Pi and better not sharing the DAC with Wifi or other use.
I2S is theoretically cleaner but the way the I2S clock is derived is not the best on the Pi. So unfortunately neither USB or I2S are perfect by any means but you still can get very good results at a lower cost.
An improved PS filter may help tho a good linear PS supplying the Pi (and DAC) is probably a better approach.
I have moved to the Beagelbone Black which I prefer. At the moment via USB but once the "Botic Cape" is available (see http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/250583-building-open-embedded-audio-applicance.html) will use I2S.
Obviously this is not specific to the TPA3116 and there are plenty of threads around covering these topics so I won't post further.
"One on the USB port, and it is correct to say by using I2S there is less noise.
Another problem on the power filter. For this one, Same noise issue with I2S and USB. Improvements done on new Raspberry."
I have used Rpi with both USB and I2s and got no noise unless there was a SW issue.
Agree USB is poorly implemented on the Pi and better not sharing the DAC with Wifi or other use.
I2S is theoretically cleaner but the way the I2S clock is derived is not the best on the Pi. So unfortunately neither USB or I2S are perfect by any means but you still can get very good results at a lower cost.
An improved PS filter may help tho a good linear PS supplying the Pi (and DAC) is probably a better approach.
I have moved to the Beagelbone Black which I prefer. At the moment via USB but once the "Botic Cape" is available (see http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/250583-building-open-embedded-audio-applicance.html) will use I2S.
Obviously this is not specific to the TPA3116 and there are plenty of threads around covering these topics so I won't post further.
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Agree with your post, and lucky you are.
I have a cubie board, and a raspberry.
Definitely, cubieboard sounds better with an external dac:
there is a small "hmmm" in the speaker with raspberry ... Same DAC.
how to explain that?
I would like to try BBB but not very confident yet about I2S and external DAC.
Maybe I have to read more posts for feedbacks....
Well I know I said I wouldn't post any more but...
I have Rpi, Wandboard and BBB. All sound same to me using USB DACs.
No platform is ideally set up for I2S connection as far as I know, in terms of using a clean pair of clocks specific to audio. I think the Cubi uses PLL, Rpi has this weird division system using a single clock, BBB has a single clock and converts 44.1 to 48k internally before sending to I2S.
But the BBB is the only one with the ability to use an external clock(s) which is what the Botic Cape is all about. Seems to me this is the only real serious contender for use with I2S.
OTOH USB based connection with a good USB interface (Amanero etc.) and DAC sounds great to me!
I have Rpi, Wandboard and BBB. All sound same to me using USB DACs.
No platform is ideally set up for I2S connection as far as I know, in terms of using a clean pair of clocks specific to audio. I think the Cubi uses PLL, Rpi has this weird division system using a single clock, BBB has a single clock and converts 44.1 to 48k internally before sending to I2S.
But the BBB is the only one with the ability to use an external clock(s) which is what the Botic Cape is all about. Seems to me this is the only real serious contender for use with I2S.
OTOH USB based connection with a good USB interface (Amanero etc.) and DAC sounds great to me!
BIG subject!
I have been playing with Rpi, BBB etc. for a while now and it has evolved over that time.
I2S is the holey grail for connecting these platforms to your DAC but no real winner here, all are flawed at the moment. The Botic Cape for the BBB is our best bet there http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/twisted-pear/250583-building-open-embedded-audio-applicance.html
But, good news, USB sounds pretty darned good to me. My latest USB DAC has an Amanaro interface with Subbu DAC modified to accept I2S from the Amanero, I am very happy with that as I await the Botic.
Here are some links:
H i F i D U I N O | Lot of Value, Little Money some excellent info on the BBB and other platforms in this blog
http://volumio.org/ has some good stuff in the forums even if you aren't using Volumio
If you use LogitechMediaServer as I do then here are some further links
https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home SW I use for the Pi
Announce: Squeeze on Arch - developer version SW I use on the BBB and Wandboard. This is the guy who wrote Squeezelite which is the player SW to use if using LMS on your server.
Have fun!
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I would always use Raspbian for audio. Some of the core developers for i.e. the USB stuff work on Raspbian, so further development is seen there first.
DAC: the easiest way and also low cost is wether Hifiberry DAC or Hifiberry Digi:
HiFiBerry - High quality Raspberry Pi Audio | Audiophile 24/96, 24/192 sound cards (Audio DAC and SPDIF out) for the Raspberry Pi, audio out, audio cards, audio projects
Both are clip on, drivers are included in Raspbian. The DAC gives you direct analogue output, the digi gives you s/pdif output, both optical and cinch to connect any s/pdif DAC you want.
I would avoid USB audio on the raspberry, at least if you want to play highres files.
Another Flavour - IQaudIO DAC
ChrisMmm built me Rpi & IQaudIO DAC combo using I2S.
He said its was a close run thing with his 9023.
Big thread here
IQaudIO Pi-DAC 24/192 DAC for Raspberry Pi
Currently, I'm using one of Chris's modified 3116s with a BuffaloII SPDIF to a BBB via XMOS with my Fostex 168 BIBs. Fantastic SQ
ChrisMmm built me Rpi & IQaudIO DAC combo using I2S.
He said its was a close run thing with his 9023.
Big thread here
IQaudIO Pi-DAC 24/192 DAC for Raspberry Pi
Currently, I'm using one of Chris's modified 3116s with a BuffaloII SPDIF to a BBB via XMOS with my Fostex 168 BIBs. Fantastic SQ
As to which combo is the best regarding the sound quality, I cannot comment on other DACs, but here's my experience with the Raspberry and Wolfson card.
Initially I tested RasPi with various external USB DACs, and was, quite honestly, more than disappointed. Lots of clicks, hiss, etc. - in short, the sound was poor. I tried various proposed solutions for resolving the USB issue, but to no avail. (On the RasPi USB shares the same bus with Ethernet, and this seems to be the cause of all the problems with USB-based sound...)
I actually gave up trying the RasPi for serious audio, and used it as a video player (XBMC) for watching movies.
It all changed when I got a Wolfson audio card (which uses I2C, not USB). At first I tested it with Squezeplug distro, using LMS (Squeezebox server): the sound was excellent, but the interface was rather sluggish.
So, I decided to switch to MPD audio server, and - bingo! - the interface is fast, fluent, no problems whatever - and the sound is great! I'm using the analog audio output (3.5mm jack) which goes directly to TPA3116 audio in via cable like this:
This setup (RasPi + Wolfson) was tested with several high-end audio setups at some friends, and the results were always excellent (we used their own high-end amps, though). My friends' comments are that this sounds great, and easily equals DACs in the $300-$400 price range. The server (MPD server on RasPi, Squeezeplug distro) is quite OK, no stuttering, works excellent with various mobile clients (MPDroid for Android, etc.), and I also added several of my own modified Web clients. I also installed a small web server, which offers several MPD web clients for controlling the playlists etc.
The only initial hurdle was that Wolfson card uses all of the GPIO pins on the RasPi, and I wanted to add an ordinary IR remote control and a LCD screen.
The IR remote was solved by using a cheap ebay USB remote, but the LCD required a lot more work (including some soldering). I used a 20x4 LCD with I2C interface, which does have some support for RasPi (LCD driver), but I had to implement most of the LCD screen fuctionality myself..
In short, RasPi with an I2C DAC works great - and not only just for kitchen or garage. The opinion of most of my audiophile friends is that it can easily be used as quite a serious audio source.
As for myself, I'm quite happy with the TPA3116 amp, and will most likely put the whole shebang (RasPi, Wolfson card, powered USB hub and TPA3116) into a single enclosure...
One note: there are several other (cheaper) I2C DACs for RasPi, like HiFiBerry, which should also work fine, but I can't comment on the sound quality, since I have not tested them.
Initially I tested RasPi with various external USB DACs, and was, quite honestly, more than disappointed. Lots of clicks, hiss, etc. - in short, the sound was poor. I tried various proposed solutions for resolving the USB issue, but to no avail. (On the RasPi USB shares the same bus with Ethernet, and this seems to be the cause of all the problems with USB-based sound...)
I actually gave up trying the RasPi for serious audio, and used it as a video player (XBMC) for watching movies.
It all changed when I got a Wolfson audio card (which uses I2C, not USB). At first I tested it with Squezeplug distro, using LMS (Squeezebox server): the sound was excellent, but the interface was rather sluggish.
So, I decided to switch to MPD audio server, and - bingo! - the interface is fast, fluent, no problems whatever - and the sound is great! I'm using the analog audio output (3.5mm jack) which goes directly to TPA3116 audio in via cable like this:
This setup (RasPi + Wolfson) was tested with several high-end audio setups at some friends, and the results were always excellent (we used their own high-end amps, though). My friends' comments are that this sounds great, and easily equals DACs in the $300-$400 price range. The server (MPD server on RasPi, Squeezeplug distro) is quite OK, no stuttering, works excellent with various mobile clients (MPDroid for Android, etc.), and I also added several of my own modified Web clients. I also installed a small web server, which offers several MPD web clients for controlling the playlists etc.
The only initial hurdle was that Wolfson card uses all of the GPIO pins on the RasPi, and I wanted to add an ordinary IR remote control and a LCD screen.
The IR remote was solved by using a cheap ebay USB remote, but the LCD required a lot more work (including some soldering). I used a 20x4 LCD with I2C interface, which does have some support for RasPi (LCD driver), but I had to implement most of the LCD screen fuctionality myself..
In short, RasPi with an I2C DAC works great - and not only just for kitchen or garage. The opinion of most of my audiophile friends is that it can easily be used as quite a serious audio source.
As for myself, I'm quite happy with the TPA3116 amp, and will most likely put the whole shebang (RasPi, Wolfson card, powered USB hub and TPA3116) into a single enclosure...
One note: there are several other (cheaper) I2C DACs for RasPi, like HiFiBerry, which should also work fine, but I can't comment on the sound quality, since I have not tested them.
Attachments
Fair comment, I only use FLACs ripped from CD so not stressing it with higher res.
I think the advantages of the Pi are-
1. Strong support - plenty of audio SW and HW for the Pi
2. Supports I2S thus able to build a very cost effective player from a Pi and a cheap I2S DAC (long as it doesn't need a MCK) although the I2S implementation is not the best.
Otherwise I would go for a better performing platform - BBB, Wandboard, Cubietruck... But as things stand there are few prebuilt audio image/player SW packages available for these other platforms so be prepared to get your hands dirty with the SW.
Maybe this is the reason I am not getting noise etc. others report with USB DACs - I use LMS on a separate server as the source for the music. The Pi etc. is only a player, using Squeezelite, tho it will be converting the FLAC to a WAV. But otherwise it has no other purpose in life whereas, my understanding anyway, MPD performs the role that LMS does as well as being the player.
Yes, I am using the Pi as both the server AND the player: I want a compact solution, not something that will require another computer/server to run.
Although I can use it this way, too - as a player only. No problem, just change a couple of config files, and that's it.
Like I said, I'm making a stand-alone server and player, in a compact "package", where you just need to add an external HDD with music, and that's it... Been setting up such servers for quite some time, mostly using "thin client" computers and other low-powered devices - but they all require external DACs, and it makes the final "product" much more expensive, plus requires additional cables, etc. - in short, additional mess on the hi-fi rack
This combo (RasPi with Squeezeplug and MPD server+player) makes for a very nice and compact unit. Adding a TPA3116 into the same enclosure will make it very portable and compact - just add speakers, and you've got an instant hi-fi setup, capable of playing hi-rez files - and with a small wifi stick (or LAN cable), you can also use it for listening to Internet radio...
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miniDSP has a native I2C interface, has anyone hacked a mod to connect Rasp-pi to miniDSP for EQ and XO duties? Danzz is working on a miniDSP form factor dual BTL or PBTL TPA3116D2 amp for me - when he releases it, hopefully miniDSP (or one of the many Chinese PCB makers) will make it. It will allow a very compact and cool triple level card stack of a full music player, EQ/XO, and bi-amp setup.
Thanks.
Unfortunately I did not take photos from the inside and already took it apart, cause that was only a fun project and I needed the Raspberry for my main system.
The others liked it a lot. If you are interested in more photos, have a look here
Frickelfest 2014/hb
and here
Frickelfest 2014
The turntable is an old Braun PC-3 that I totally rebuilt and modify together with a 7" unipivot tonearm that I constructed and built myself:
Sorry for the o.t.
Unfortunately I did not take photos from the inside and already took it apart, cause that was only a fun project and I needed the Raspberry for my main system.
The others liked it a lot. If you are interested in more photos, have a look here
Frickelfest 2014/hb
and here
Frickelfest 2014
The turntable is an old Braun PC-3 that I totally rebuilt and modify together with a 7" unipivot tonearm that I constructed and built myself:
Sorry for the o.t.
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